AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: The high fuel price  (Read 4625 times)

Offline type45

  • Members
  • Posts: 843
The high fuel price
« on: June 12, 2011, 05:24:34 AM »
The fuel price go up and never fall since around 2009......can our residential AWS fuel price analyst (a.k.a sami ;) ) give us some idea what will happen next? :P

kone_alta

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2011, 04:08:33 PM »
Due the high fuel price I can hardly owing any aircraft unless they are cheap enough (i.e. direct purchase discount), even fuel conserving planes like A350 can hardly making good profits.
I guess the price will stay high until the end of world  :-\

Offline eleritz

  • Members
  • Posts: 390
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 05:09:51 PM »
 i love high fuel prices, hope it will go up a little bit further;)
 people say once it reached as much as 1400.

Offline JumboShrimp

  • Members
  • Posts: 5992
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2011, 10:39:40 PM »
The fuel price go up and never fall since around 2009......can our residential AWS fuel price analyst (a.k.a sami ;) ) give us some idea what will happen next? :P

It's hard to make predictions - especially about the future.  ;)

Offline BobTheCactus

  • Members
  • Posts: 1244
    • AeroBlogger.com
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 12:07:42 AM »
Ask the Alliance Fuel Psychic (Janos) ;)
Editor of AeroBlogger
If you're interested in blogging on aviation 3x/month or more:
http://AeroBlogger.com/Write

kone_alta

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 08:42:53 AM »
i love high fuel prices, hope it will go up a little bit further;)
 people say once it reached as much as 1400.
Perhaps your company are generating good profits, how about your leased 767?  ;) Do they still making profits?

Offline eleritz

  • Members
  • Posts: 390
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 12:14:46 PM »
yes they still make some profit, around 100 per week :)

cht7520

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 03:00:35 PM »
A lot of bankrupt airlines these days... :o

$1365 isn't exactly great...

ksliu9

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2011, 05:40:14 AM »
i also love the high fuel price! I'm ordering more CS100/300 which is the most fuel efficient plane within 100-150 pax range! They work excellent for me!!!

Offline eleritz

  • Members
  • Posts: 390
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 02:34:03 PM »
1405 $! anybody in the know if itīs the highest fuel price ever in AS games or not yet?

ksliu9

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 03:24:38 PM »
1405 $! anybody in the know if itīs the highest fuel price ever in AS games or not yet?

Yet I still can make a profit for more than 95% of my a/c!!! My 764 is doing about 1M profit (the highest is 1.3M for leased 764, and 1.5M for own 764).  CS100/300 is excellent even in the highest fuel price. 

Actually, is CS300 (for max econ config, 149 pax) the most efficient jet?

flightsimer

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2011, 04:26:54 PM »
Yet I still can make a profit for more than 95% of my a/c!!! My 764 is doing about 1M profit (the highest is 1.3M for leased 764, and 1.5M for own 764).  CS100/300 is excellent even in the highest fuel price. 

Actually, is CS300 (for max econ config, 149 pax) the most efficient jet?
In an all HD econ config here are the top five aircraft based on a fuel burn per hour per pax

1st ATR 72-500/600 (close enough to count both as 1st)
2nd Q400
3rd A380
4th ATR42-600 and DHC-8-300 (tied- same exact fuel burn)
5th CS300

now, the A380 probably wont be able to be used in a HD config due to the freq war, so the CS300 is the most efficient jet, but there are two others really close to it as well.

Offline BobTheCactus

  • Members
  • Posts: 1244
    • AeroBlogger.com
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 04:43:27 PM »
In an all HD econ config here are the top five aircraft based on a fuel burn per hour per pax

1st ATR 72-500/600 (close enough to count both as 1st)
2nd Q400
3rd A380
4th ATR42-600 and DHC-8-300 (tied- same exact fuel burn)
5th CS300

now, the A380 probably wont be able to be used in a HD config due to the freq war, so the CS300 is the most efficient jet, but there are two others really close to it as well.

But of those, Q400 is the most profitable. It has a break-even LF of something around 30%. You are completely ignoring a VERY IMPORTANT factor: speed.
Editor of AeroBlogger
If you're interested in blogging on aviation 3x/month or more:
http://AeroBlogger.com/Write

flightsimer

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2011, 12:13:50 AM »
But of those, Q400 is the most profitable. It has a break-even LF of something around 30%. You are completely ignoring a VERY IMPORTANT factor: speed.
The Q400's breakeven point for a real flight is about 22 passengers in a 68 seat config or about 20 in a 78 seat config. However, that is the breakeven point for the flight itself, not taking into consideration of the support of the aircraft. In AWS, the breakeven point is about the same, but AWS requires a lot more staff than it would take in RW. I have to make about 150k a week per Q400 to break even with my 32 strong Q400 fleet, anything below that Iím making losses for the week.

There is a difference however between being the most profitable and being the most efficient aircraft. Being an efficient aircraft doesnít have anything to do with speed, itís about costing the least compared to another aircraft to operate that flight. The higher the fuel prices go, the more apparent this becomes as well. Now, Iím by no means saying the Q400 can't or wonít make more money than an ATR, because they can, but itís not because they are more efficient
Here is a general rule of thumb. First off,  the faster aircraft can be no more than 25% faster than the slower aircraft (faster speed/slower speed). As long as the route doesnít 75-78 passengers, the ATR will always make more money than it. Now this is only true when comparing like aircraft, for example, Turboprop-Turboprop or Jet-Jet. We arenít talking about thousands of dollars either. Itís a very small amount as you will see below.

Here is the proof.

For the sake of this, there is a 70 pax demand and we will assume that each aircraft will have 70pax in it on every flight. Both aircraft are in HD configs so the ATR is seating 74 and the Q400 is seating 78. Since fuel hit 1400+ per 1000kgs, we will use 1400 per 1000kgs to simplify it. Also winds are accounted for in the flight times.
Flight: PIT-ACY, 267nm, ticket prices 190 each. 
A/c------------actual flight time------fuel burn-------Fuel costs------pax income------total income
ATR 72-500------1hr 30min------------870kgs-----------$1239------------13300------------12061
Q400-------------1hr 20min-------------960kgs-----------$1344------------13300------------11956

As you can see, the ATR makes MORE money than the Q400 on an even playing field. Now sure, itís just a difference of $105, but it is still a higher profit which proves the point. Now the Q400 can make more money than the ATR on this route if it can fill 75-78 seats, which it wins strictly on a capacity basis.

Now another example at a little bit longer range flight

Flight: PIT-HVN, distance= 336NM, again will use 70 pax for each flight and same fuel prices

A/c------------actual flight time------fuel burn-------Fuel costs------pax income------total income
ATR 72-500------1hr 40min-----------967kgs-----------$1354------------13580-------------12226
Q400--------------1hr 25min-----------1020kgs----------$1428------------13580-------------12152
Difference of $74

Another example with a longer flight time. I switched from using distances to time due to wind since some longer flights can take just as long as some of the shorter flights.
Flight: PIT-BNA, distance= 401NM, again will use 70 pax for each flight and same fuel prices

A/c------------actual flight time------fuel burn-------Fuel costs------pax income------total income
ATR 72-500------2hr 25min----------1401kgs-----------$1961------------13790-------------11829
Q400---------------2hr 5min----------1500kgs-----------$2100------------13790--------------11690
Difference of $139

Another example with an even longer flight time
PIT-STL, 480nm, same as above
A/c------------actual flight time------fuel burn-------Fuel costs------pax income------total income
ATR 72-500------2hr 50min-----------1643kgs-----------$2300------------14000-------------11700
Q400--------------2hr 25min-----------1740kgs-----------$2436------------14000-------------11564
Difference of $136
So as you can see, for an ATR flying a flight 1.5-3hrs long, each flight still comes out ahead of the Q400ís. I could have kept going and the ATR still would have burned less fuel, but I got tired of doing it.
 Now, where this efficiency is lost is when comparing total potential individual aircraft profits for each day. Because of the speed difference, the Q400 can fly in some cases depending on our network, one more daily flight over the ATR which that allows it to make more money.
When I replaced my ATRís with Q400ís, most of them were running 4 daily flights. When I switched them, the Q400 was still only running 4 daily flights, but its day ended about an hour earlier than when ATRís were flying the same routes. It wasnít fast enough for me to add any more flights. Now if my ATRís were running 3 daily flights, then in some cases, I was able to keep the three previous daily flights and then transfer a very short flight to finish out the day with 4 flights. And when I say short, I mean short (max of 200nm if even that much). If you have enough of these short flights, you can slowly reduce the amount of Q400ís you would need to replace the ATRís and by reducing the number of needed aircraft; you increase the efficiency of your AIRLINE, not the aircraft.
 So in closing, I agree 100% that the Q400 generally will can earn you more profit compared to an ATR, however, it is not the most efficient aircraft in doing so.

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3073
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2011, 02:39:02 AM »
1405 $! anybody in the know if itīs the highest fuel price ever in AS games or not yet?

Modern Times #1 got into the 1400's but didn't go much higher.

Peanutoil

  • Former member
Re: The high fuel price
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2011, 08:17:22 AM »
now, the A380 probably wont be able to be used in a HD config due to the freq war, so the CS300 is the most efficient jet, but there are two others really close to it as well.

It's definitely possible but i dare not to do it. Did any one want to see such a Huge Jet Crammed with people? :-\

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.