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Author Topic: Why on Why are there airports in this game that are not suitable to use  (Read 1847 times)

Offline ukatlantic

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  • Posts: 1780
WHy on Earth have we got airports in this game that we cannot realistically use for operations?  I looked at Saudi Arabia and decided that I would base at the largest airport currently there (thinking it would be a good palce and would have sufficient demand throughout the ME the airport igraph looked alright.  However even routes to Dubai the max number of passengers was 10 per day! So Wyy have we got these when they do not porvide realistic base options  ???

I wasted a bankruptcy on setting up there only to find that rather than B/k again and have to pay 5 credits to restart I had to use 500k of valuable cash to rebase! Also how on earth is anyone making any cash?  I messed up with my first run onlyin the Game World (expanded too quick and added 2 extra fleet types which done me in (lesson learnt there) So I started again  to find that the second try was not better becasuse the aircraft were making 200k losses no matter what route types I tried (long Haul, then tried a short haul and a medium haul to one airfraft) but still no profits whatsoever! I dont expect big money when your a new airline, but I'd at least expected to break even or even make a small profit!  :-\

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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The biggest problem I see at the moment is the following one;

some airports are mainly for international use - so for example Singapore, Tokyo Narita and some others.

The starting money is $2.200.000 - which isn't enough to lease DC-10, the only long-haul aircraft that makes profit at the moment. Due to the high fuel prices B707, VC10, B747 etc. aren't very economic.

The same problem have B721 - they provide less pax for lot of fuel and it's not easy to make some profit with them. I fly them five times a day (!), full economy class, and the profit isn't this much. I better not think about people trying to fly them one or two times a day for 1800nm.


So, in fact, there are two possibilities;
get DC-10 leased cheap by someone from your alliance (and WorldLink in your case should be able to do so), get A300 if you have very short routes with high demand, use B737-200Adv on longer routes (up to 1500nm) or choose an airport with possibility of much flights a day to make profit even with not so good aircraft - there are some spaces left in Europe and USA.


Offline LemonButt

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I am making approximately 25% profit.  There are no secrets--you just have to be patient and disciplined.  The first pillar of success is aircraft choice.  Availability shouldn't be the only factor in picking what aircraft you want to fly.  I have only one competitor at my base and my entire fleet is brand new BAC 1-11 500's--I ordered every single one directly from the manufacturer and had to wait.  My competitor has dirty old 720B's that carry around 40 more pax than my 100 seaters, but also burn 5x the fuel and are older with increased maintenance costs.  Needless to say, I don't think he'll be surviving too much longer.

A way for a newer player to learn the ropes is to base at a secondary airport that doesn't have any other airlines based there.  If you are at a smaller regional airport in the states you can focus on dominating the routes to the major hubs.  For example, there is no one based at AVL and there are only 2 flights/day into the airport.  If you were to base there, the top 5 airports have approx ~150pax/day demand and if you use prop planes that aren't fuel hogs, you can dominate those routes with frequency and turn a healthy profit by controlling your costs and flying your planes 80% full instead of 50% full.  Once you've dominated all the routes worth flying out of AVL, you could open a second base and do it all over again, but in the mean time--pay attention to what is going on.  I've been playing this game for over a year and I still watch things like a hawk because it can be very easy to lose money if you aren't paying attention.  If there is a route that can support more than 1 flight/day, I don't fly it unless I can dominate it.  There is no use in flying 1 flight to Atlanta when you're competing against 10 other flights/day--you won't turn a profit.  Airlines at the big airports like Atlanta aren't going to waste precious resources on trying to dominate a route like ATL-AVL, so you'd be in a good place.  Furthermore, if you are flying 3x daily from AVL-ATL with 50 seaters and you're competition is flying 3x daily with 150 seaters--you'll still have higher load factors as passengers prefer smaller planes.

I just use AVL as an example--there are plenty of other smaller airports you can dominate as well (look at airport info before you bankrupt and you can check demand levels before basing there).  If you are trying to compete with the big boys and you're still a newbie, you're going to lose and lose big.  You're not going to understand that you need cash for C/D checks or how to manage a fleet successfully until you can master the fundamentals.

Offline alexgv1

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ukatlantic: Were you Prestige based out of Hong Kong?

Wondered what happened to you. The HKG-TPE route is on like some 11k oversupply now  :-\
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline [ATA] - lilius

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But the issue might be demands in the mid east. Correct me if Im wrong but my belief is that the huge airline industry is fairly modern in the area and demands could have been quite low back 1980.

However it might be confusing if airports are always showing the %-rating of 2010 demands. Does anyone know how that works? Are the ratings the same during all game years?  

Offline LemonButt

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  • Posts: 1895
But the issue might be demands in the mid east. Correct me if Im wrong but my belief is that the huge airline industry is fairly modern in the area and demands could have been quite low back 1980.

However it might be confusing if airports are always showing the %-rating of 2010 demands. Does anyone know how that works? Are the ratings the same during all game years?  

I think the % rating is always the same, but shouldn't by any means be a measure of "flyability".  You'd think the major Chinese airports to Taiwan would offer huge demands going between level 5 airports, but the demand is 0 for political reasons.  There are many more examples as well...

Offline ukatlantic

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  • Posts: 1780
I am making approximately 25% profit.  There are no secrets--you just have to be patient and disciplined.  The first pillar of success is aircraft choice.  Availability shouldn't be the only factor in picking what aircraft you want to fly.  I have only one competitor at my base and my entire fleet is brand new BAC 1-11 500's--I ordered every single one directly from the manufacturer and had to wait.  My competitor has dirty old 720B's that carry around 40 more pax than my 100 seaters, but also burn 5x the fuel and are older with increased maintenance costs.  Needless to say, I don't think he'll be surviving too much longer.

A way for a newer player to learn the ropes is to base at a secondary airport that doesn't have any other airlines based there.  If you are at a smaller regional airport in the states you can focus on dominating the routes to the major hubs.  For example, there is no one based at AVL and there are only 2 flights/day into the airport.  If you were to base there, the top 5 airports have approx ~150pax/day demand and if you use prop planes that aren't fuel hogs, you can dominate those routes with frequency and turn a healthy profit by controlling your costs and flying your planes 80% full instead of 50% full.  Once you've dominated all the routes worth flying out of AVL, you could open a second base and do it all over again, but in the mean time--pay attention to what is going on.  I've been playing this game for over a year and I still watch things like a hawk because it can be very easy to lose money if you aren't paying attention.  If there is a route that can support more than 1 flight/day, I don't fly it unless I can dominate it.  There is no use in flying 1 flight to Atlanta when you're competing against 10 other flights/day--you won't turn a profit.  Airlines at the big airports like Atlanta aren't going to waste precious resources on trying to dominate a route like ATL-AVL, so you'd be in a good place.  Furthermore, if you are flying 3x daily from AVL-ATL with 50 seaters and you're competition is flying 3x daily with 150 seaters--you'll still have higher load factors as passengers prefer smaller planes.

I just use AVL as an example--there are plenty of other smaller airports you can dominate as well (look at airport info before you bankrupt and you can check demand levels before basing there).  If you are trying to compete with the big boys and you're still a newbie, you're going to lose and lose big.  You're not going to understand that you need cash for C/D checks or how to manage a fleet successfully until you can master the fundamentals.

I am not a new player  >:(  I normally do pretty well and pick good basing choices buut for some reason in DOTM I can never get it to damn well work!  :'(

cht7520

  • Former member
ukatlantic: Were you Prestige based out of Hong Kong?

Wondered what happened to you. The HKG-TPE route is on like some 11k oversupply now  :-\

Was wondering the same thing too. I thought Prestige was doing well before it went. I certainly didn't expect it.

Offline ukatlantic

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Trust me it was, but then came along c check time for those Electra's and at 900k a pop and they were in for one week after week it wiped the profits out! Now I can't even get a foothold with an aircraft on a route without it makes losses whether i have it in only economy or with economy and business or even wioth all 3 classes- they still make continued losses- maybe I need Chuck Norris to help me or failing that some advice from SAMI as to where its going wrong :'(

Offline alexgv1

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Trust me it was, but then came along c check time for those Electra's and at 900k a pop and they were in for one week after week it wiped the profits out! Now I can't even get a foothold with an aircraft on a route without it makes losses whether i have it in only economy or with economy and business or even wioth all 3 classes- they still make continued losses- maybe I need Chuck Norris to help me or failing that some advice from SAMI as to where its going wrong :'(

Funny enough, my other mate at Hong Kong bankrupted too (also due to fleet choice). Maybe it's something about that airport in this era...
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline ukatlantic

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Funny enough, my other mate at Hong Kong bankrupted too (also due to fleet choice). Maybe it's something about that airport in this era...

I wish Its jsut as bad at SIN, cant get a foothold, I've now gone for 3 shortish rooutes in a day to get it operating more, maybe that might make a difference, but I douobt it. Where is Chuck Norris when you need him?  :laugh:

Offline alexgv1

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I wish Its jsut as bad at SIN, cant get a foothold, I've now gone for 3 shortish rooutes in a day to get it operating more, maybe that might make a difference, but I douobt it. Where is Chuck Norris when you need him?  :laugh:

There's great demands for the South East Asia area but the problem is you have to fly far to get them...
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Funny too see how this thread goes. I posted in my first reply what the problem is and how it can be solved - especially involving your alliance.

I also don't think there's an alternative for this.

Offline ukatlantic

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Funny too see how this thread goes. I posted in my first reply what the problem is and how it can be solved - especially involving your alliance.

I also don't think there's an alternative for this.

Apparently none of the WL players have any aircraft for lease, so I have to look to the used market but there is nothing there, I have a VC10 and well cant do much with it to be honest.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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It is not possible that you get something useful from the used market. You need long-haul aircraft and the DC-10 are too expense for the starting money players have.

As I told there are many WorldLink members that are able to purchase one or two DC-10 and lease them to you. Maybe they don't want to do that, but I don't know this.


Maybe you give the B737-200Adv another try. Sometimes there are some on the used market. Very expensive, but affordable also for newer airlines.

Offline NorgeFly

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As I told there are many WorldLink members that are able to purchase one or two DC-10 and lease them to you. Maybe they don't want to do that, but I don't know this.

It's not quite as simple as that... while we may want to help, it isn't always that simple. A $50m+ purchase at this early stage of the game is out of the question for many airlines.


Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Yeah, I know and it was no offense. But I think Dan has for example the same profit or even more as I have and it just needs one DC-10 to get the feet back on the ground. I tried myself to put an order for Karl between, but the $170 Million already kick in soon :/

I just don't like if it is possible to help others and things like game mechanics or less money makes this little step impossible.

Offline ukatlantic

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I restarted but typical there are the same old rubbish that noone wants whilst the global statistcs show the 'good stuff' are still in storage  ::)

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Yeah, I know and it was no offense. But I think Dan has for example the same profit or even more as I have and it just needs one DC-10 to get the feet back on the ground. I tried myself to put an order for Karl between, but the $170 Million already kick in soon :/

I just don't like if it is possible to help others and things like game mechanics or less money makes this little step impossible.


..boggles.. I'd forgotten what a license to print money Haneda is...

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Yeah... it's my first time there and it's very impressive. I'll start there in a Modern Times Scenario again for sure :D

Haneda also gives you a secret seating option - if you choose it, the aircraft has 0 seats, but the aircraft is filled with money printers :P

But, just to be honest; $64 Million now and the rest later on delivery in five month. :)

 

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