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Author Topic: What Replacements?  (Read 2786 times)

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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What Replacements?
« on: May 20, 2011, 01:53:01 PM »
heres my plan, 

I am using Fokker F.27s for my short routes and the BAC 1-11s for routes with some distance.  I am planning replacing the Fokkers with the saab 2000 when it comes out around '94..... but i think thats probably too long so my question is what can replace the Fokker in like lets say 8-10 years?  ....

and what can I use to replace the BAC 1-11 when those babies go out? 

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2011, 02:05:23 PM »
Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Super or BAe ATP, maybe ATR-42 - but all three aren't very good in my eyes.


BAC-1-11 with BAe 146 or B737.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2011, 02:07:13 PM »
If I were you, I'd convert the BAC to your shorter range F27 routes and then get a bigger plane to replace the BAC routes.  BAC turnaround is only ~15 minutes longer than the F27 and flies twice as fast, so you shouldn't have scheduling difficulties making the switch.  You've also made a seemingly critical error in buying BAC 475's.  If you compare the 475 to the 500, you'll note that the 500 is slightly more expensive, but carries 25 max pax for the same crew/fuel burn.  You're basically paying for 25 extra seats without making any money with the 475's.  If range is an issue, you can still config the aircraft with less seats to extend the range and increase comfort levels (good for competition).   Considering the current planes avail, I'd replace the BAC with the 727.  You'll be increasing capacity with both these switches (50 to 75 seaters, 75 to 160 seaters) as demand will be rising strongly over the coming years.

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 02:11:20 PM »
If I were you, I'd convert the BAC to your shorter range F27 routes and then get a bigger plane to replace the BAC routes.  BAC turnaround is only ~15 minutes longer than the F27 and flies twice as fast, so you shouldn't have scheduling difficulties making the switch.  You've also made a seemingly critical error in buying BAC 475's.  If you compare the 475 to the 500, you'll note that the 500 is slightly more expensive, but carries 25 max pax for the same crew/fuel burn.  You're basically paying for 25 extra seats without making any money with the 475's.  If range is an issue, you can still config the aircraft with less seats to extend the range and increase comfort levels (good for competition).   Considering the current planes avail, I'd replace the BAC with the 727.  You'll be increasing capacity with both these switches (50 to 75 seaters, 75 to 160 seaters) as demand will be rising strongly over the coming years.

If I switched my BAC's to the fokker routes im going to lose out on frequency and I'd lose my market share because I'm fighting fierce competition... I'll look into the BAC 1-11 500 but I think Im only going to be using these for a short while untill more advanced aircraft come into play.... isnt the 727 a bit too fuel thirsty? and arent I going to to run into the same problem with BAC's ... old age?

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 02:15:59 PM »
If you fly the B727 till it's maximum range in the later years you will die. If you use it on shorter routes or fly them far away and replace them in the next years, you should be fine.

However, I told you all aircraft that are released or released soon and fit your requirement. There are no other aircraft in AWS.

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 02:17:26 PM »
curse, why do you think those aircraft are bad?  the ATR certainly isn't that bad....especially for the amount of demand EGAA has

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2011, 02:29:25 PM »
In general I don't like small props without some big advantage - so for example I like the F50 because it can fly very far or the Dash 8-Q400 because it is extremely modern (fuel consumption etc.) and big.

The HS 748 Super seems for me the best of available props for you. It has the highest range and is doing average. But the fuel consumption is higher than BAe ATP and ATR-42 and it is noticable slower.

The BAe ATP is bigger (68 vs. 54) seats than the HS 748 and has ~180nm range less but consumes less fuel of all the props I named. Unfortunately it will not show up before end 1984, more likeley 1986 or even later.

The ATR 42-300 is smaller, has a very short range (390 normal and 580 MTOW). It's the fastest model, but consumes a bit more fuel as the BAe ATP and shows up only one year earlier. The bigger ATR variants show up much later, so nothing you should plan with.


I like you, so if you want to get the full specs of these aircraft, tell me, I'll drop you a PM with it so you can compare them by yourself.

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2011, 02:33:16 PM »
I see your point, so heres another approach to it, how long do you think I can keep my F.27s flying?  and then from that answer I'll know what a/c I'm going for. 

Whats your opinion of the Saab 2000?  would that be a nice replacement for the F.27?


aw thank you curse  :-[ ... I like you too haha  ::)

Its okay thank you for the offer just wondering on these questions :)

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2011, 02:40:54 PM »
How about the BAe 146? Non of your routes are exceptioanlly long, I think when I looked 702NM was the farthest you flew, the advantages would be you could drop to one fleet type and the 146 can sustain Business Class seating, and they are good for routes upto around 800NM, if you stick with the largest vairent which carries approx 100 pax you'll be fine also if you can get them flying a 7 day rotational schedule you could be 'quids in' profit wise as fleet utilisation could potentially be higher.  :)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2011, 02:55:44 PM »
That's a good point. I spared them because they are no props and for this they consume more fuel. They are also (much) larger and can fly longer distances, but business class also could be build in the three props I named (ATR not for sure 100%, just 99%).


To your questions; theoretically you can fly the F27 till 2030, but remind aircraft must be scrapped after 35 years or so (I don't know this exactly, but I think DanDantes knows, he's based at Chicago in DotM #2).

The Saab2000 is a good aircraft. Good speed but high fuel consumption (compared to other props of this time). If you take it's release date ~1993, you could also go for Fokker 50 (much slower but higher range - 1030nm vs. 820nm and 240kts vs. 352kts), DHC-8-300 (released 1989 in basic version), ATR-72 (same fleetgroup as ATR-42, released 1991) or smaller jets like Fokker 70 (same fleetgroup as Fokker 100 which is released 1987).

You see, there are many many possibilites.


If I were you I'd stick to F27 and later change to BAe ATP and if this is too big, just put standard seating in it.
To replace the BAC-1-11 I would maybe - if I have enough money - use BAe 146 and later change to Fokker 100 (1987) and Fokker 70 (1993).


However, I don't know exactly the demands of Belfast, but this should be ok for you. At the end it's your decision and you can't do anything wrong with every prop. They will always make decent money if you have a bunch of them and something bigger to support. Just make sure your aircraft has more than 40 seats (better 50).

And don't go after the CRJ100/200 :)

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2011, 02:58:46 PM »
And don't go after the CRJ100/200 :)

BAck that up 1000% not a good choice, yt the larger new vairents 900/1000 series are ok from what I can gather  :)

ucfknightryan

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2011, 05:29:20 PM »
How about the BAe 146? Non of your routes are exceptioanlly long, I think when I looked 702NM was the farthest you flew, the advantages would be you could drop to one fleet type and the 146 can sustain Business Class seating, and they are good for routes upto around 800NM, if you stick with the largest vairent which carries approx 100 pax you'll be fine also if you can get them flying a 7 day rotational schedule you could be 'quids in' profit wise as fleet utilisation could potentially be higher.  :)

The 146s aren't bad replacements for 1-11s.  The lower turn time usually balances out the slower flight speed when rescheduling iirc.  Plus they provide a nice range of sizes.  Only downside is that they tend to be a bit on the expensive side.

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 06:38:50 PM »
well heres another question that might decide my a/c ... will the demand in DOTM 2 ever get close to the demand in the modern times?

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2011, 06:45:33 PM »
I think so.

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2011, 07:15:58 PM »
Why would you drop the 1-11? It's an extraordinary aircraft, it makes money even when fuel prices are in the $400/$500 range
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Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2011, 07:25:20 PM »
hey bobthecactus, how are you today?

wellllll I dont know, its an ageing aircraft, and IRL if demand increases like it should do according to real life then I should be flying a 737 fleet, but knowing AWS it will probably get it wrong and seriously deduct passengers away from me.... butttt be that as it may... I was thinking of getting a plane that carries more people and farther... Im the kind of guy that like to build an airline with a medium sized prop and jet... so I just wanted to see what people thought about the replacements :)

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2011, 07:31:09 PM »
hey bobthecactus, how are you today?

wellllll I dont know, its an ageing aircraft, and IRL if demand increases like it should do according to real life then I should be flying a 737 fleet, but knowing AWS it will probably get it wrong and seriously deduct passengers away from me.... butttt be that as it may... I was thinking of getting a plane that carries more people and farther... Im the kind of guy that like to build an airline with a medium sized prop and jet... so I just wanted to see what people thought about the replacements :)

In AWS, frequency is king, so adding more flights is better than using bigger planes

Once you have completed expanding, you can replace old 1-11s with new 1-11s, but there is no need to go away from 1-11s (saves time for scheduling too)
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Offline TranceAvia

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2011, 12:14:24 AM »
i ran bac 1-11's (475's), from mid to end of DoM in the last game and very sucessfully. good balance between speed/capacity and value. just watch if fuel goes up alot!

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2011, 12:50:34 AM »
The last DotM hasn't had a long and high fuel spike, or am I wrong?

For example, I know B722Adv fail hard if there is a big fuel spike, but in the last game big B722Adv airlines survived till the end.

Offline EYguy

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Re: What Replacements?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2011, 06:25:23 AM »
The last DotM hasn't had a long and high fuel spike, or am I wrong?

For example, I know B722Adv fail hard if there is a big fuel spike, but in the last game big B722Adv airlines survived till the end.

According to historical data and even considering customisation/randomisation of oil prices, the fuel spike should happen between 1989 and 1992, considering that the Gulf War started in early 1991 and the event are randomized about +/-18 months from real life dates.

 

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