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Author Topic: Slots  (Read 5397 times)

Offline ACDennison

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Re: Slots
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2011, 08:33:36 PM »
I like the new slot system, but think the fuel and interest rates have risen too fast in this scenario... essentially although we have slowed growth with the slots and their costs, the situation is now that you still have to be succesful fast and commit to new types to avoid being wiped out.

I'll admit going with 707's was probably a bad choice, but then again I don't have the ability to do endless refreshes watching the used market, so they are the only long-haul aircraft available.  Given in the real world 707's and DC-8's operated well into the 80's I reckon we've gone too far driving these out this early.  I'm also concerned thsat if an experianced, competant player like myself can fall this way, thechances for new players are even worse - they join a game, take an obviously available, historical type and then cannot make money with it, hardly a good introduction to the game.

I think maybe a good change to make would be allow airlines to break lease while in the red, the same way you can buy slots in the red.... otherwise you end up with aircraft you cannot lose that are taking you under.

Overall though I'm drifting way off the origianl point - new slots system = good!

 

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Slots
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2011, 09:45:48 PM »
This article rang a bell:

http://theaeropost.com/?p=7870
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline EYguy

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Re: Slots
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2011, 11:08:10 PM »
Firstly - thanks for trying something different, and it has made for a very interesting start to the game.

Whilst I love this rather tough scenario, with tighter, more expensive slots, high fuel prices and high interst rates to begin with, I'm not actually sure if it will allow new players to enter successfully.

1 - The decision to start at 50% slots allowed me to build up a nice slot bank between 4am and 8am - as I chose my aircraft well. This froze out the ability of competitors to build a profitable schedule - and hastened the demise of competitors very early on.

2 - The slot-a-palooza we have today is permitting high frequency routes (I just launched a x7 daily PEK CAN service using 105 seater aircraft) to be launched with real ease.  Competing against this for a new or smaller carrier is next to impossible as the slot costs are high and frequency is key.   This can make the stronger carrier stronger and hard to compete for a weaker or new carrier.

3 -  Slots a plenty also allows for entry into secondary hubs easier, but the largest cities that dont permit second bases to be made are still secure- making carriers who choose these hubs very safe indeed once older competition drops out of the story.

4 - The restrictions on aircraft comining into the used market (why are there 237 732advs being held back for sale on the used market, but buckets of unwanted 707s available) also hinder new carrier growth -for example -  I had a new competitor in PEK, and he chose the CV990 as his aircraft - no chance he could make money, yet if he had 732s available, he could have survived.  Having to choose older aircraft ( I have a fleet of 50 or so IL-18s) also results in excessive maintenance costs, which have caught lots of people out.

So for me

1 - permit open access to all cities for second hubs
2 - the used aircraft market needs to recycle unwanted aircraft quickly
3 - slow down the growth of slots, but start at more than 50% (200% should take 10 years to achieve)
4 - keep slot prices high

In summary - this game is following the US model of slots a plenty, demanding frequency operated by small aircraft, rather than the eurasian model of restricted airports and larger aircraft.   Considering where the US aviation is in terms of profitability, I think we are in for an interesting game finale.  Efficiency is the key in this game.



I think you got the point here... Even because here in Australia the aviation industry is very similar to the one in the USA. I'm wondering if Sami could model thi s difference in the next 1.3 engine or we'll have to wait until 1.4... It would be just so cool! :)
But I reckon that a good rework of the demand system would already allow players to enjoy a bit more realistic gaming environment.

To confirm what Curse wrote: on the MXP-FCO route there are a/c no smaller than A319 flying. If there are, it is because airlines either need to rotate an a/c or for technical reasons.
My competitors are struggling as much as I do because I'm flying 732 and they're flying smaller a/c with higher frequency: I'm filling up my a/c as much as they do because my pax prefer speed and jet a/c but they've lower op costs so we're basically killing each other in a totally unrealistic scenario...

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2011, 12:26:20 AM »
I'll admit going with 707's was probably a bad choice, but then again I don't have the ability to do endless refreshes watching the used market, so they are the only long-haul aircraft available. 

Sorry, I try not to discuss every point in this thread I see in a different way, but I need to say something to this.

At the beginning of the game lots of DC-10 and TriStar were available as profit making aircraft and they appeared on the used market quite often in the first 72 hours to an affordable price even for completely new airlines.

And if you have no time to refresh the market and there are no endless long-haul aircraft available that can make profit, it seems you must do what some others did - get some short or middle haul aircraft and earn your cash there to order new long-haul aircraft that can make profit.

AWS shouldn't be this easy to make it possible for everybody in every situation to get what he wants. Believe me, I'd like to get 6 used DC-10 from the used market every ingame week - but I must accept I can only have no or just one a real day.


Quote
Given in the real world 707's and DC-8's operated well into the 80's I reckon we've gone too far driving these out this early. 

But is that the purpose of AWS? Just looking for a carrier that did well in real life out of the same airport and copy the strategy? Make it possible to use the exactly same strategy in DotM, DotM#2, DotM#3, DotM#4...?

Or create situations that give players the opportunity to think, to develop own strategies, sometimes to fail and restart and do it better.


Offline ACDennison

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Re: Slots
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2011, 02:53:41 PM »
I actually got a DC-10, but only one - and you can't realisticlly make enough in the first 72 hours to get another.  I then couldn't get anymore, and had to abandon the type as the overhead on a single-aircraft fleet was way too much.

And I still stand by the fact that the game should be accessible to newer players - having a used market full of types that are invitations to bunkruptcy from right at the start of a gameworld does not help this!  I reckon you need a good four or more years at the start where available aircraft are profitable to help create a level, accessible playing field - otherwise you automaticlly limit successful airlines to those who do get the usable aircraft, to the cost of everyone else.
 

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Slots
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2011, 03:02:42 PM »
I actually got a DC-10, but only one - and you can't realisticlly make enough in the first 72 hours to get another.  I then couldn't get anymore, and had to abandon the type as the overhead on a single-aircraft fleet was way too much.

And I still stand by the fact that the game should be accessible to newer players - having a used market full of types that are invitations to bunkruptcy from right at the start of a gameworld does not help this!  I reckon you need a good four or more years at the start where available aircraft are profitable to help create a level, accessible playing field - otherwise you automaticlly limit successful airlines to those who do get the usable aircraft, to the cost of everyone else.

I had to wait 3 months for my first aircraft--a brand new BAC 1-11.  When you enter a game, you aren't obligated to pick up aircraft from the used market.  It may be quicker, but 3 game months is only 2 real world days, which really isn't that long to wait.  The best lesson a newbie can learn is that there is no such thing as instant gratification in AWS and you have to be patient in order to be successful...but this of course is true in any business.

Offline ACDennison

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Re: Slots
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2011, 03:47:04 PM »
Agreed - but perhapes, that being the case, we should stop pushing new players towards used aircraft through the advice given in-game and here on the forums.
 

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2011, 04:15:10 PM »
Falling hard makes most people learn.

Ok, there are names that now have restarted 25 or 30 times in DotM, but there's always and everywhere some dumb guy everybody is laughing at. :)

Btw, in the first month it was possible to earn money with B707 - either with high first/business class or with many flights a day (a competitor of mine used them in domestic Japan and made endless money... till fuel hits $300).

Offline Silentlysailing

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Re: Slots
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2011, 06:41:02 PM »
I'll be honest, I started the game like 6 times to try and figure out where each aircraft works and where it doesn't.

I bought a lot of used 19 seat airplanes and are turning a profit. Albeit it isn't a large profit but it is a small very secure profit. I'm not even running them on routes over 150nm. With the 25 minute turn I can get in 7 or more flights per day on them. Sure if I did it again I'd probably order fewer aircraft at the start so that I could afford to put routes on the aircraft that I do have. Oh and with the fairchild, the first new airplane was delivered within a month game time. The small aircraft are easy to find So airplanes are available you just have to try a different tactic. As of right now there are a couple 727's. However it gets you to try new aircraft. Some work and some wont.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 07:06:30 PM by Silentlysailing »

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Slots
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2011, 07:23:41 PM »
I just started at Frankfurt and will give it a shot to see how I may be able to establish a profitable airline at this stage of the game.

Cheers,
Denis

Offline Silentlysailing

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Re: Slots
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2011, 08:12:47 PM »
I was reading and seeing how some airlines use regional aircraft during busy times to add to routes. So while I have an MD-81 I figure I go on a busy route and see how much market share it'll help me catch. Originally I was going to use a piper until I realized I could get an aircraft with more seats and that it could make 4 turns per day vs 3. Like the small aircraft could be used to avoid losses as they require less staff and are cheaper to maintain.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 08:52:09 PM by Silentlysailing »

Offline Herman

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Re: Slots
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2011, 12:20:59 PM »
Sami,

I like the new slot system a lot more than before. It keeps the game more interesting as slots keep popping up. The expensive price of the slots also avoids that the airlines can grow as fast as before, so this is actually a lot more fun now. I hope you will keep this new slot system for future games. One recommendation I have is that indeed there is no reason in my mind to avoid that airlines would open a base in the top airports. I can imagine you would want to keep a limit to how many airlines can be based in an airport overall, but the ability to open a base in the top airports would be nice (instead of having only the new players that can come there).

Herman


Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2011, 11:09:37 PM »
Three years into the game and it's still possible to create routes to other airports. Wow. And no first January battle for slots... what is the most amazing thing.

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Slots
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2011, 11:13:05 PM »
I love the new slot system. It allows for real competition (because frequency is the only real pseudo-competition in AWS), and more demand is filled than before. I sincerely hope that it will be included in future gameworlds.
Editor of AeroBlogger
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Offline alexgv1

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Re: Slots
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2011, 11:31:13 PM »
Well this certainly removes the slots element of competition which has a few factors:

  • It is easier for late starters in a game world
  • People cannot lock down an airport to competition by controlling all the slots
  • Slot hogging is deterred by higher costs
  • Frequency competition is easier

So if this was the intention, it is a success. I personally think the numbers should be less, more like 150% of slots, and this number takes longer to mature. This is so airports do eventually still run out of slots (just not so quickly) otherwise slots would be pointless.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Sami

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Re: Slots
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2011, 07:10:18 AM »
Yes, it will be roughly this in 1.3. I am just about to do the changes today. The slot bidding etc what were talked are too complicated and I guess these changes do the trick just as well and save a huge amount of my time.

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Slots
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2011, 07:59:28 AM »
I think it's worked great. I've bankrupted and managed to start a viable airline from Heathrow at this stage of the game with many slots left for use. I think the ability to fly from and to the big airports for a longer period of the game is great.

Online TranceAvia

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Re: Slots
« Reply #57 on: July 08, 2011, 02:55:40 AM »
Loving this new slot system. Means you can actually operate to airports you have heard of (and I work in an airline! lol)

 

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