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Author Topic: Slots  (Read 5417 times)

Offline Sami

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Slots
« on: May 13, 2011, 06:15:01 PM »
As posted in announcement:

This game world uses also a slightly modified airport slot capacity calculation method for testing purposes. At game world start there are less slots than normally (~60%) but the number of slots goes up monthly to reach regular (100%) status at approximately 12 months, and raises to double level (200%) compared to other games in coming years. Slot costs for large airports are increased slightly.

Do not be alarmed by the initially low number of slots. And after a few game years do not report issues (bugs) with having too many slots compared to real life since this is intentional.

Aim is to test if we could keep the largest airports "open" slotwise longer than normally. Slot growth is global and for all airports, in v.1.2 it is not possible to control them on per-airport basis (v.1.3 code is a bit different in this sense).

Do understand also that if slots is not the most & first restricting item, something else will be. Most likely aircraft availability if I'd have to guess. And one should understand that there is always some aspect that is limiting the "unlimited growth"; slots, aircraft, available routes (pax) etc.

Ilyushin

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Re: Slots
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 06:21:16 PM »
Thank you, sami. This sounds like a great idea. It will probably be better now than when we use the normal slot system. I hope this avoid complaints, now.

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: Slots
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 06:26:22 PM »
I hope this avoid complaints, now.

As the saying goes you can please some of the people all of the time or all of the people some of the time but you can NEVER please all of the people all of the time, so I bet there is bound to be some complainers about how unfair the new slot system is or how its inadequate.  Anyway's I think the new system could prove very interesting ;D

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Slots
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 06:29:50 PM »
I'm excited to see how the slot front develops and I think this is a good idea. Adds some "spice" to the game worlds to make this a bit different from the last DOTM anyway  ;D
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: Slots
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 06:46:16 PM »
Good idea. I have to say that when I logged in and saw the slot totals, my jaw hit the floor. 18/hour in MAD?! Then I read your post and all made sense!

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. My prediction: Que early for aircraft such as F27 and BAc's as there will be more room for the all powerful frequency!
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CEO PacAir
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filipebravo

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Re: Slots
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2011, 02:15:48 PM »
I don't wanna be the first to complain, but now we're gonna see a frequency fight rather than the usual rush for slots.  :P :P I like the idea of having more slots, but also would like to see a lower weight of frequency on passengers choice. Please don't be mad sami :d

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2011, 02:44:17 PM »
Do you really mean this airline flying only F27 out of Heathrow doesn't do this because it's the best money maker ingame? Oo!

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2011, 12:55:51 AM »
Hum. The new slot cost system kicks in really hard. I'm paying 3-4x for slots than for aircraft.

It seems some slot hogging only airlines are stopped like this guy at Heathrow, but others can expand without problems (see Bangkok NAMC, Haneda NAMC, Barcelona F27 etc. etc.).

Just a short feedback on this :)

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Slots
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2011, 01:04:48 AM »
So far, I like it :)
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Offline knobbygb

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Re: Slots
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2011, 08:10:33 AM »
I'm at EWR with a total of six airlines and it doesn't seem to be having much effect yet.  The new slots are coming along before the original ones would be filled anyway, as there is just not enough money/aircraft for even six airlines to fill them that quickly - even in a top 20 airport.  It's grown from 15/hr at start of game to 19/hr now (5 months in) and there is still no single point in the day when more than 15 slots are being used. Yet.

Maybe this is partly because the slots are "slightly" more expensive and thus we can't afford so many aircraft.  It's hard to tell but they do seem VERY expensive actually. I'll have to pay more attention but so far the slot prices feel more like they would in the 1990's or 2000's, not the 70's.

I think this is, overall, a good idea but maybe the growth should be a little slower - maybe growing to 100% after two or three years rather than one, and then to 200% after five or even 10 years.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Slots
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2011, 12:08:34 PM »
I think this is, overall, a good idea but maybe the growth should be a little slower - maybe growing to 100% after two or three years rather than one, and then to 200% after five or even 10 years.

I really like the new system.  It's no longer a rush to get aircraft and grow as fast as possible since the opportunity to grow will remain for the entire game period now.  I think the slots should be at 50% to start and have a somewhat "exponential" growth curve for the future (at least for this time period) as airports and airlines expanded rapidly during this period.  Perhaps 50% to start, 100% at 8 years, and 200% at 16 years with growth after that being flat.  This also helps regulate the new aircraft orders as people won't be ordering aircraft they can't use and people will be more inclined to open new bases as slots are more scarce.

Offline MidlandDeltic

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Re: Slots
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 01:58:54 PM »
Not a complaint as such - more an observation.  The downside of the new slot system so far is that it penalises short sector operations even more than before.  For regional turboprop operations, five rotations per day is my normal target.  Out of Dublin, the slot set-up for my next four daily rotations has just come out at around $700,000.  Growth does seem to be slower therefore, but the bias towards long-haul (greater returns for lower slot costs) is even higher than before.  I appreciate that the aim is to slow slot consumption, but for airports such as Dublin with lower LH demand it leads to lots of waiting for cash to build.

At airports such as LHR this is understandable; at those with lower LH demand, it stifles us slightly, allowing those at larger airports (AMS for example) to subsidise their attacks to which we cannot respond quickly.

MD

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Slots
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2011, 02:20:13 PM »
Not a complaint as such - more an observation.  The downside of the new slot system so far is that it penalises short sector operations even more than before.  For regional turboprop operations, five rotations per day is my normal target.  Out of Dublin, the slot set-up for my next four daily rotations has just come out at around $700,000.  Growth does seem to be slower therefore, but the bias towards long-haul (greater returns for lower slot costs) is even higher than before.  I appreciate that the aim is to slow slot consumption, but for airports such as Dublin with lower LH demand it leads to lots of waiting for cash to build.

At airports such as LHR this is understandable; at those with lower LH demand, it stifles us slightly, allowing those at larger airports (AMS for example) to subsidise their attacks to which we cannot respond quickly.

MD


This actually works out beautifully.  The shorter the flight, the higher the profit margins assuming all things equal.  The long haul routes have more F/C demand and is the only reason they are more profitable.  Given the option of flying 100 Y class pax 100nm or 1000nm, you'll find the 100nm is way more profitable.  So the options are, pay out the nose for 3 shorthaul slots that have substantially higher profit margins or pay out the nose for 1 longhaul slot where profit margins are lower unless you capture substantial F/C demand.

Slowing down growth makes the game much more strategic and there should be much less flying by the seat of your pants type players.  You have a very finite amount of resources and need to allocate those resources for maximum return versus just leasing any/all available planes that are remotely close to acceptable and turning ridiculous profits and experiencing exponential growth unattainable in the real world.  Even with the growth slowed down, we have airlines with 30+ aircraft after only 6 months.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Slots
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2011, 02:23:45 PM »
Even with the growth slowed down, we have airlines with 30+ aircraft after only 6 months.

Seems like no amount of coding can remove the "no life factor".
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 03:31:23 PM »
Without the extreme slot costs I would have up to 70 aircraft right now. So it's an effective blocker.

GEnx

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Re: Slots
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2011, 03:38:17 PM »
It's s*** if you change airports though.. Really hard to compete. Scheduling a NAMC is a pain now. :-\

Peanutoil

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Re: Slots
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2011, 03:50:07 PM »
No more advantages to use turboprops in big airports now. Please use suitable type of aircraft to gain most profit and pay less for the slots! Buying slots is pain...

Offline MidlandDeltic

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Re: Slots
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 03:53:23 PM »
This actually works out beautifully.  The shorter the flight, the higher the profit margins assuming all things equal.  The long haul routes have more F/C demand and is the only reason they are more profitable.  Given the option of flying 100 Y class pax 100nm or 1000nm, you'll find the 100nm is way more profitable.  So the options are, pay out the nose for 3 shorthaul slots that have substantially higher profit margins or pay out the nose for 1 longhaul slot where profit margins are lower unless you capture substantial F/C demand.

Slowing down growth makes the game much more strategic and there should be much less flying by the seat of your pants type players.  You have a very finite amount of resources and need to allocate those resources for maximum return versus just leasing any/all available planes that are remotely close to acceptable and turning ridiculous profits and experiencing exponential growth unattainable in the real world.  Even with the growth slowed down, we have airlines with 30+ aircraft after only 6 months.

Not sure I agree there.  In DOTM1, I was running 757s on LH (Dublin tends to be fairly thin) and getting around 110-130k per day for a single trans-Atlantic trip (with C/F load factors of 80-100%) - say 90k for a 707 at the current time in DOTM2.  On my 732s in DOTM2 (3 round trips LHR, 80%+ C load) I am getting around 42k.  Not running any long haul yet - 707s and DC-8s drink too much fuel for me! - but with 7 day slot costs of around 180k each on top of leasing up-front costs, the SH option is now around $1m up front to set up, whereas a LH is significantly around the same for a much greater return.

As I said, not a complaint as such - it does slow up slot use - but I feel it does discriminate against SH operation and require a different thought process which is not necessarily a bad thing!

MD

Offline MidlandDeltic

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Re: Slots
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2011, 03:54:59 PM »
No more advantages to use turboprops in big airports now. Please use suitable type of aircraft to gain most profit and pay less for the slots! Buying slots is pain...

So if looking for uncontested routes, and the demand is (say) 150, you advocate running 1x737/A320 rather than 2 F27/ATR?

MD

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Slots
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2011, 04:22:32 PM »
That's the cool things - this depends on you and your strategy. Maybe it's a good idea to use 2x F27 like in the past, but maybe it's a better or worser idea to use something bigger.

At the moment I must pay ~$3 Mio Dollar to schedule one B727/B737 out of Haneda.

 

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