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Author Topic: Thoughts on the 717?  (Read 3175 times)

Offline GlobalCEO

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Thoughts on the 717?
« on: May 13, 2011, 03:29:14 AM »
So what are your thoughts on the Boeing 717-200? On paper it looks interesting but does it make money or a real strain on the bank account?  :-\

Thanks!

Offline type45

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 04:40:45 AM »
I use a number of it at both NRT and FUK. They can make money, the only problem is how much ;)

but I just use them in short term to handle the demand before enough 737NG arrival, I will withdrew them from services soon......

Offline GlobalCEO

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 04:51:59 AM »
Interesting, thank you! So would I be better off using a CRJ or ATR?

Ilyushin

  • Former member
Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 07:38:00 AM »
Interesting, thank you! So would I be better off using a CRJ or ATR?

ATR (or Dash-8), yes.

Offline EYguy

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 10:08:05 AM »
I use a number of it at both NRT and FUK. They can make money, the only problem is how much ;)

but I just use them in short term to handle the demand before enough 737NG arrival, I will withdrew them from services soon......

I agree... They're not money making machines like A32X/B73NG... And, FYI, I just love the A32X family, they have a/c for every job, no difference between legacy-classic-NG and common engines with A342/3.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 10:53:40 AM »
For me the 717 is too small for the era it flies in. Especially if you fly it anywhere near it's max range when the fuel prices are up. It even carries less people than the MD87 so it's more comparable to a DC-9-50 which was really a stretched regional jet. To make money on the routes it is designed for, 717 should carry more people. Or if you are going to use it as an RJ then you are as well to get an aircraft designed to be one that has better fuel burn.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 10:55:48 AM »
For me the 717 is too small for the era it flies in. Especially if you fly it anywhere near it's max range when the fuel prices are up. It even carries less people than the MD87 so it's more comparable to a DC-9-50 which was really a stretched regional jet. To make money on the routes it is designed for, 717 should carry more people. Or if you are going to use it as an RJ then you are as well to get an aircraft designed to be one that has better fuel burn.

yea but IRL the 717 carries 120 people with standard seating, the AWS 717 will allow 120 people but it has to be HD, which is incorrect.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 11:00:37 AM »
It might work at 120 in standard it was kind of my point when I compared it to the MD87 which does work well at 120 seats. Maybe this is what is affecting the potential of this aircraft.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Pilot Oatmeal

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 11:05:44 AM »
yea if it was 120 seats standard it would work, like how Air tran use their aircraft, C class: 15 Y class: 105 so that would be a good money maker i believe

Offline ekaneti

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 12:56:25 PM »
Airtran is C12 Y105. Total 117. WN's 717s will be 117 all Y, so slightly better pith in Y for WN than for FL.

But the problem with the 717 is the problem with every airplane in MT. Fuel prices. The 717 can make money if it is flown on short routes frequently. Put it on longer routes over 1000nm and it will be hard to make any $$$. With $1000+ oil I was using a 162 seat 737-400 on a 1500+nm routes and barely making it.

I am currently flying a fleet of over 35 ATRs on short routes and am consistently in the top 5 most profitable airlines in the world in terms of margin (about 30%).

Offline GlobalCEO

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 02:27:48 PM »
Cool, thanks for the input! I will go with the ATR then because I am looking at numerous, potential revenue rich routes that are under 500nm BUT have a LOT of competition on them. The reason why I was wanting an RJ is because I would like to utilize the speed to increase my frequency but if the routes are all under 500nm then it doesn't matter much, correct?

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 02:49:58 PM »
Cool, thanks for the input! I will go with the ATR then because I am looking at numerous, potential revenue rich routes that are under 500nm BUT have a LOT of competition on them. The reason why I was wanting an RJ is because I would like to utilize the speed to increase my frequency but if the routes are all under 500nm then it doesn't matter much, correct?

Yeah go for the ATRs for sure!
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline type45

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2011, 04:00:17 PM »
ATR or Q400 are good planes to do that job, 717 is a bit small......my 717 can make some money but not a lot of cash. ATR/Q400 with HD config will be good, even under heavy competition.

filipebravo

  • Former member
Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2011, 05:20:27 PM »
What about E-Jets? Have you considered?

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2011, 11:01:06 PM »
I have found quite a few routes that only need 100-110 seats. My 717's are working for me. ;)

Online ZombieSlayer

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2011, 12:15:25 AM »
What about E-Jets? Have you considered?

I love the E-Jets, but it depends on the mission. If ALL the routes they will be used for are under 500nm, go for the prop for fuel burn. If, however, you could use the range/speed of the 717, consider the E-Jets and you will get a 68, 76, 92, and 104 seat aircraft all capable of flying at least 1600nm. I have most of my 195STD and LR's running at 3C/112Y or just 112Y and all are making good money, even on longer (1200-1800nm) routes.

Don

Edit: Also consider the Antonov AN-148 and 158. I flew them in MT3 in China and they worked out great. A bit sub par on fuel economy, but I figured that, with a lease, fuel would have to hit $1500 or so for the increased fuel consumption vs. comparable E-Jets to offset the lease price (which is about half of that of the comparable E-Jet). The -148E has a range of over 2100nm and can carry 80pax in HD Y and make good cash.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 12:19:25 AM by jetwestinc »
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline GlobalCEO

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2011, 01:10:05 AM »
I had not looked at the E-jets because I assumed they would be just as hard to make money with as the CRJ's. I will take a look at them! Thanks!

filipebravo

  • Former member
Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2011, 02:40:12 AM »
To maximise your profits, consider only E195 (my own experience). Profits vary from 200k to 400k / week, with some business seating (3 to 6 seats). They are expensive to lease, but with time, if you buy them, they will be a good investment.

drewsy aki

  • Former member
Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2011, 01:28:50 PM »

I operate 17 AN 148e s on under 700 mile rotations 3or4 flights aday in brazil and they are making me between 150 to 320k a week, I dont know but would say thats not bad money.. I am preety happy with them. i also operate 3 AN 158 and they are not quite so good in my opinion. 8)

Offline powi

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Re: Thoughts on the 717?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2011, 07:26:44 PM »
717 differs from most other regionals, because it's considered as a large aircraft in the game while others are considered only medium. Doesn't make a huge difference, but is worth to note. Replacing it later with other regionals may force one to fire large aircraft pilots reducing CI.

 

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