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Author Topic: International Long haul  (Read 3511 times)

VDM

  • Former member
International Long haul
« on: May 07, 2011, 03:19:00 AM »
Hello everyone here,

I am asking a question as I am not experienced on long haul routes like over 3,000nm+. My airline co. is based in Chicago, USA.

The international long haul in Chicago is 8%. I don't know if it is worth adding the very large aircraft into my fleet when I get rid of my aging Boeing classic fleet. I will stick to my plan on adding the domestic routes for now. I know there are plenty of competitions in the 3,000nm+ routes (high risks) and the jet fuel is not cheap.

I am considering about adding one like Airbus A300-600R or Boeing 767? into my fleet in the game future. Any suggestion would be appreciated.

 

Nlgravity

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2011, 04:23:40 AM »
A300R have a max range of 4000. If you will add a fleet group just to expand into long haul routes, I would pick a more versatile fleet type. A good choice would be A330/40. This is perhaps the most versatile fleet group for longer routes. You can have 333 for shorter routes with higher demand ans 340 for very long routes... all with one fleet type.

As with B767, you want the 400s. However I dont know how worth it it is to add a fleet group as 767 since you wont have high capacity and the range will be limited to western europe, mid south america

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2011, 04:49:32 AM »
A300R have a max range of 4000. If you will add a fleet group just to expand into long haul routes, I would pick a more versatile fleet type. A good choice would be A330/40. This is perhaps the most versatile fleet group for longer routes. You can have 333 for shorter routes with higher demand ans 340 for very long routes... all with one fleet type.

As with B767, you want the 400s. However I dont know how worth it it is to add a fleet group as 767 since you wont have high capacity and the range will be limited to western europe, mid south america

I was looking into the details of A330/40, it is interesting to read it. I like A330-300 because it has high capacity possible with low fuel burn but the lease price is expensive. I think it is less risk when a company owns very large aircraft especially when dealing with competitions. I am not sure of A340. I guess I have to learn more of longer range aircrafts. Thanks Nlgravity. :D

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2011, 06:07:03 AM »
I have seen that the 340 aircraft has 4 engines on it. I don't know if having 4 engines on one jet would cost more on a maintenance bill than 2 engines on one jet? :P

Nlgravity

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2011, 07:21:09 AM »
I have seen that the 340 aircraft has 4 engines on it. I don't know if having 4 engines on one jet would cost more on a maintenance bill than 2 engines on one jet? :P


It doesnt matter. Yes, engine commonality will be a bit higher. But it wont affect your bottom line. If you want to be cost contious, then you can at least get the same engine type.... that would save you a few bucks... but again, not enough to matter

filipebravo

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2011, 08:38:58 PM »
With 767-400s I can make 1million / week even with high fuel prices.

ksliu9

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2011, 02:22:31 PM »
With 767-400s I can make 1million / week even with high fuel prices.

If you use 764 to fly a route about 3000+ , it's not difficult to have 1m/week. If you use 764 to fly a very short route with 3x daily, u can even make it as 1.5m/week!

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2011, 07:37:42 PM »
My two 330-300s are temporarily profitable on pre paid 4 months but it will not be profitable once
I get my first lease bills for both of them. I guess lease prices are probably higher because they are still new. Both of them have full route schedules. 6 routes are long haul on both of them, 2 short haul routes on one and 1 medium range on the other one. I guess I have to wait more for the route images to rise more.

Luckily, I signed one year lease for both of them. I will switch for other appropriate aircraft to match if these 330-300s are not profitable. Do mixed routes (3,000+ and 6 days per week) work well? I am sure it requires some skill. Thanks for the suggestions from other players on above.

Offline EYguy

  • Members
  • Posts: 563
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2011, 11:04:16 PM »
The A330 is one of the most profitable a/c in AWS... The problem could be that you "over paid" them. Especially if you are leasing them from another airline: other companies usually charge you with incredibly high leasing fees in order to make good money on their a/c. Then you should consider if your engine commonality is good: it is not a big deal, but we're always talking about 60k per month, not peanuts. And if you opened the routes with those a/c, it will take a while before your RI rises enough to give you a good LF.

Cheers

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2011, 11:26:36 PM »


Both of these A330-300s are from the broker companies. They will be charging me $1.9 m for one and $1.8m for other 2nd a330 monthly. The route images of the long haul routes are still below 15. I will give them more time to see if they are ok or not. At least the losses are small mostly 150k better than over 500k loss.  :P

Offline JumboShrimp

  • Members
  • Posts: 5992
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 11:31:30 PM »
I think you need to optimize the schedule and seating configuration.

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2011, 11:47:09 PM »
I think you need to optimize the schedule and seating configuration.

Is PANC code route good, profitable? The LF for panc is way low 32%. Other routes assigned to these A330s are 59%. I will give it a day to see if it is low or high profitable. If not, I will optimize the schedules. I have increased the spending for the marketing a little more.

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2011, 08:02:50 PM »
I am asking another question regarding the A330-300. How much profit weekly does it normally make with
heavy competition included when a RI is at 50+. So I will know what needs to make changes. I know it depends on demand and competiton and lease prices on long haul routes.

Offline JumboShrimp

  • Members
  • Posts: 5992
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2011, 08:32:32 PM »
I am asking another question regarding the A330-300. How much profit weekly does it normally make with
heavy competition included when a RI is at 50+. So I will know what needs to make changes. I know it depends on demand and competiton and lease prices on long haul routes.

Good result for A330 is 1 mil in profit per week.  Great result is 2 mil per week.

With heavy competition, 500,000 to 750,000 is acceptable.

Offline EYguy

  • Members
  • Posts: 563
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2011, 10:51:08 PM »
Yeah,you deff have to optimize seating and resched the a/c. A330 can earn up to 2,5mln if you are in the right moment (meaning: oil at reasonable price and high demand).
If you have premium demand (i.e. C and F), invest money on it with premium seats. I do not know in which world you're playing but it could be worth to take a look at those seating charts.
Oh, and if you have only those two a/c flying different routes you probably are not exploiting commonality costs at their best (high overhead costs for those two a/c).
Btw, for the amount of money you pay for the leasing, you should keep the a/c in flight as much time as possible.

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2011, 11:19:28 PM »
Yeah,you deff have to optimize seating and resched the a/c. A330 can earn up to 2,5mln if you are in the right moment (meaning: oil at reasonable price and high demand).
If you have premium demand (i.e. C and F), invest money on it with premium seats. I do not know in which world you're playing but it could be worth to take a look at those seating charts.
Oh, and if you have only those two a/c flying different routes you probably are not exploiting commonality costs at their best (high overhead costs for those two a/c).
Btw, for the amount of money you pay for the leasing, you should keep the a/c in flight as much time as possible.
I have scheduled those a/c full and stay in the air all day every day except for a and b checks. It got to be that route images that are not at full like over 80 yet and competition is tough. I will be considering how to schedule routes better . It has to be 6 or more designations per very large aircraft? I am in MT4.

Offline EYguy

  • Members
  • Posts: 563
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 06:38:02 AM »
What do youy mean with "designations"? If meant "destination", there's no fixed rule. I can tell you that the longer is the flight, the better will be your result, because you're "pulling" a/c range, which is what you paid the price for. One of my best routes with the A330 was DOH-HKG: close to range limits, good demand even if with tough competition and a good seat configuration. The a/c was making about 2,5mln with low commonality costs/because when the a/c could not operate for A-B checks, there was an A343 flying the same route. To summarise: low fuel consumption, common type, modern a/c, 7days sched, good seat configuration, more than one flight per day (in this case, 3 per day).

If you plan to use your a/c for short haul route, you've made a big mistake. I think that the only profitable route with such an a/c could be a LAX-JFK only to fill up the gaps between longer flights/empty scheds.

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2011, 01:00:20 PM »
What do youy mean with "designations"? If meant "destination", there's no fixed rule. I can tell you that the longer is the flight, the better will be your result, because you're "pulling" a/c range, which is what you paid the price for. One of my best routes with the A330 was DOH-HKG: close to range limits, good demand even if with tough competition and a good seat configuration. The a/c was making about 2,5mln with low commonality costs/because when the a/c could not operate for A-B checks, there was an A343 flying the same route. To summarise: low fuel consumption, common type, modern a/c, 7days sched, good seat configuration, more than one flight per day (in this case, 3 per day).

If you plan to use your a/c for short haul route, you've made a big mistake. I think that the only profitable route with such an a/c could be a LAX-JFK only to fill up the gaps between longer flights/empty scheds.

Please excuse my lousy spelling "designations" I should have known better!  :-[ Yes it meant destination. Thanks for the tip. :)

VDM

  • Former member
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 03:44:48 PM »
I have scheduled three 5,000nm+ routes and three 1,500nm+ routes (high demand) and 2 small range high demand routes to fill the gaps. Those routes have not reached to normal perecentage of LF yet because of low RI. I will keep trying till they are successful. Wow it is tough for me to figure it out on scheduling long haul and ultra long haul route. They are still making losses. I will keep trying.

Offline EYguy

  • Members
  • Posts: 563
Re: International Long haul
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2011, 05:41:08 AM »
I do not know in which world you're playing, so I have no idea of demand and oil prices... Considering that the demand is given and those pax want to fly, they'll do it for whichever price they'll find on the market (provided that your prices are lower than competitors').

However, remember this rule: you pay a high price for a long range a/c. So, the longer is the route you're flying, the better is your a/c "utilisation" (and so, your economic results). An A330-300 would do very well on a 5000NM route with three class seating config. You can even stretch the range choosing a "Premium" seating config, but it's up to you.

To give you an example: I had A343 flying out from DOH to JFK. The route is so long that the a/c can't fly it daily, so I needed 3 a/c to fly the route daily, have both of them A-checked once a week and give up one flight per month because of B-checks.
Between the DOH-JFK flights, there were DOH-MUC flights with 3hrs between scheds. The third a/c operated the DOH-JFK on Sun and filled up other gaps during the week.
I had a fleet of A330/340 and A32X, so commonality costs were at minimum levels.

Cheers

 

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