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Author Topic: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?  (Read 7609 times)

trent_768

  • Former member
Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« on: March 24, 2011, 01:12:26 PM »
Hi! I was a little bit late when joining this world, so i have to based on a smaller airport. My fleet consist of 5xDash 8-100, 1xE170 and 2xBrasilias and all of them are bringing me 150-190k per week. Pretty for me! 8) 8)

But recently, the low cruising speed of the Dash-8 started to annoyed me because my base has a curfew @ 22-7. I can't make more legs on every a/c cause my surrounding city is like 500nm or so. So,is it worth to replace my Dash-8 (@90k lease rate) with ERJ/CRJ-200 (around 200k lease rate) but with more pax, higher speed and more legs?

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 02:20:11 PM »
Enjoy bankrupcy if you want to operate RJs. I suggest Bombardier Q400.
Also watch your fleet commonality
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Offline Sami

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 02:25:58 PM »
I've done it with ERJ-145 & ERJ-170 fleet... 145s alone was hugely tight but with 170s added it was better.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 02:30:17 PM »
I'd like to think it is possible despite the demotivators of a few opinionated forum users.

Using the 50 seaters alone is hard (dont got for lower, e.g. ERJ-135). Don't forget also later on the stretches of the CRJs (700/900) which pack more of a punch.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 02:38:32 PM »
It's possible, but it's really difficult. REALLY difficult. And there is a fuel spike ahead, which will kill any RJ centered airline.
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trent_768

  • Former member
Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 05:11:04 PM »
Well i think i'll skip the RJ! Do you think the E-170 was a better choice?

Enjoy bankrupcy if you want to operate RJs. I suggest Bombardier Q400.
Also watch your fleet commonality
Well the Brasilia's was added because the lack of the -100 in the used ac market. Not interested with the other series except the Q400. But somehow i feel that ~350k for a 70 seats props is to expensive! :'(

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2011, 05:25:01 PM »
E-170 is an RJ (regional jet). I suggest you fly props, not jets. Dash 8 is fine.
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trent_768

  • Former member
Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2011, 05:56:25 PM »
E-170 is an RJ (regional jet). I suggest you fly props, not jets. Dash 8 is fine.
Well the so called 'RJ' that i mention before was the ERJ-135/145. ;D Because in some aviation forum, they use the term E-jets for the E170/175/190. Funny marketing gimmicks.... ;D ;D ;D


Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 05:59:56 PM »
I use a small (but growing) fleet of E-170s.

They make money depending on the alignment of the planets in that week. I get some weeks where the whole fleet is making a loss, some when none of them are. I wouldn't base a whole airline around them for that exact reason, I have a LH fleet making the real money.

Offline SuperVC10

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 06:52:22 PM »
Hi,

I am operating from London City using a mixture of ATR's and Bombardier CRJ705 aircraft. I have the same issue, LCY is closed between 21-06 so it is difficult to get high aircraft utilisation. For short sectors there is little overall difference between the block times of the aircraft. The turnaround is roughly the same and speed difference is not significant enough to reduce the flying time.

The transition seems to occur at around 500 Nm, where the flight time in high density turboprop seating is more than the passengers will stand and the CRJ is significantly quicker.

The longest route I operate and still achieve 3 sectors per day is London City - Stockholm Arlanda. which is 774 Nm. The longest sector I operate is to Helsinki which is 981 Nm, any longer than this and a tech stop is required due to the short runway at LCY.


From an economic perspective, the most profitable routes I operate are ultra short haul with the ATR aircraft where four sectors per day can be flown by each aircraft. The Dash 8 Q400 is slightly faster than the ATR so I would base yourself somewhere which has a few medium demand routes (300 pax per day) in close range (<300 Nm). Don't add any jets until these routes are up and running and turning a profit.

The CRJ's I operate are profitable but they wouldn't sustain the airline on their own. In truth I could probably make more money by scrapping them and using the slots for additional ATR flights but I have to use them if I want to develop a route network which includes slightly longer haul (for LCY) destinations. The economics may be better using CRJ900 but the runway requirement at LCY makes this impractical. I will have to wait and see if they are still profitable during any fuel spike, I imagine it could be pretty marginal.

Hope this information is useful.

Ben

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 07:26:27 PM »
Rule of thumb is you'll go into bankruptcy if you don't watch it nearly 24/7. Never ever discount your fares withose types of aircraft either. Always default or higher if you can get away with it. I tried it twice doing all of that and twice it went under giving it all the attention possible.  :-\

Offline Runner

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 11:44:59 AM »
I say it's not impossible to fly them. BUT it is very important that u use it in the right way. As suggested above, you should use props for routes shoter then 500nm. However, not every airport has enough suitable routes under 500nm so basically it all depends on where you are based. Your complete fleet strategy should be based on the routes available from a certain airport (your base, in this case). So don't choose an aircraft that everyone wants (or doesn't, for that matter), but choose one that suits your demands and requirements.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 11:58:29 AM »
I am just still sad my demotivator got mocked...

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 12:14:08 PM »
I am just still sad my demotivator got mocked...

Don't be too saddened by it. It inspired me to do a new CRJ one.

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,20278.msg149975.html#msg149975
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 12:22:27 PM »
I REALLY would love to see someone run a test airline with the CRJ 100/200 only.    Do what I did trying to succeed with a fleet of Fairchild a/c.   Make a diary/blog about it. 

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2011, 12:35:54 PM »
I REALLY would love to see someone run a test airline with the CRJ 100/200 only.    Do what I did trying to succeed with a fleet of Fairchild a/c.   Make a diary/blog about it. 

I've considered it. I've had a halfhearted go with ERJs (the 145 ones I mean) in Europe. I think that would be the best place for them in my mind. I might give it another shot in some game world. I'll just remember not to order them new one by one.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

trent_768

  • Former member
Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2011, 12:56:25 PM »
I REALLY would love to see someone run a test airline with the CRJ 100/200 only.    Do what I did trying to succeed with a fleet of Fairchild a/c.   Make a diary/blog about it. 
With a 10 credit donation, i'll do it for you... ;D ;D ;D

Btw,your Demotivators thread almost kill me swift!! :laugh: :laugh:

Offline Daveos

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2011, 01:03:06 PM »
I REALLY would love to see someone run a test airline with the CRJ 100/200 only.    Do what I did trying to succeed with a fleet of Fairchild a/c.   Make a diary/blog about it. 

I am doing that right now in Sofia, although I've had to expand my options a little to their larger family members.  I managed to earn enough from my initial CRJ100/200s to afford leases on a nearly CRJ700 and a new CRJ900, which is nearing delivery.  Luckily when I started leases on the used market were near standard, as now every CRJ that appears has a much higher leasing price and would be unfeasibile.

It's hard work and every fuel rise dents profits massively, but profits are around 100-200k most weeks, which pay for the C-checks fine and eventually allow for the new leases.

The majority of the routes available aren't partcularly close, but there are a couple of domestic routes that have ~200 demand.

Progress is just very slow, but I'll be sticking with CRJs for the duration of the world to see how they fair.

Offline RushmoreAir

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Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2011, 05:22:28 PM »
I REALLY would love to see someone run a test airline with the CRJ 100/200 only.    Do what I did trying to succeed with a fleet of Fairchild a/c.   Make a diary/blog about it. 

Done.  In DOTM, Primrose Airlines.

See my "Diary" in the general forum.

ksliu9

  • Former member
Re: Making money with the ERJ and CRJ-200, possible?
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2011, 03:42:44 PM »
Hi! I was a little bit late when joining this world, so i have to based on a smaller airport. My fleet consist of 5xDash 8-100, 1xE170 and 2xBrasilias and all of them are bringing me 150-190k per week. Pretty for me! 8) 8)

But recently, the low cruising speed of the Dash-8 started to annoyed me because my base has a curfew @ 22-7. I can't make more legs on every a/c cause my surrounding city is like 500nm or so. So,is it worth to replace my Dash-8 (@90k lease rate) with ERJ/CRJ-200 (around 200k lease rate) but with more pax, higher speed and more legs?

I suggest you may try An-140 or MA60. Though the speed of both a/c are slow, they are REALLY CHEAP to lease!!! You can compare the price of an AN-140/MA60 with a CRJ200.   CRJ200 is about 2.5x more expensive than AN140, and about almost 2x more expensive than MA60. Also, how about the fuel consumption? Almost double!  Although you may make 3 or 4 more routes per day for your CRJ, while you can only make 2 or 3 routes for AN-140/MA60, I still think using those Russian/China made prop is preferable!

 

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