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Author Topic: HQ Crowding  (Read 5007 times)

jonleonardjr

  • Former member
HQ Crowding
« on: March 04, 2011, 04:20:07 PM »
Well, the games been up for about half an hour, and I see there are already 5 airlines based out of KLAX. This is my first experience in the larger pool games (Played Demo and in BW#12) - is this typical? Or is this going to drive us all mad within the first few months?

Offline iFlysimX

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 04:22:06 PM »
Well, the games been up for about half an hour, and I see there are already 5 airlines based out of KLAX. This is my first experience in the larger pool games (Played Demo and in BW#12) - is this typical? Or is this going to drive us all mad within the first few months?

Thats the problem....I agree with you its like that at ALL starts of a New Game World........

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 04:24:31 PM »
Its entirely normal.

The vast number of those will fall by the wayside within a few weeks. 2, maybe 3 airlines tend to survive in the big hubs.

juanchopancho

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 10:51:08 PM »
and all the same players in the same airports lol

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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    • FmFreaks
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 12:43:51 AM »
and all the same players in the same airports lol

Yeah people really just stick to the same airports time after time

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2011, 12:52:32 AM »
Yeah, I bet LAX will have at least 8 airlines in the beginning.  3 will drop off in the first day for no apparent reason.  2 will stick it out a few days before realizing that 1 plane serving 7 routes per week doesn't make money.  The remaining 3 will continue on for a week until two of them are clearly dominant over the third and he drops out.  Those 2 will go at it for a few months until slots are full and the 2nd airline gets frustrated that he can't expand to compete with the other airline and drops out.  The remaining airline will use up all the slots left over from the 2nd airline until he's served every significant airport on every continent.  Once he's done that he'll keep his account open but stop playing.

And there you have the evolution of LAX, LHR, NRT, etc.

Offline [ATA] Sunbao

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    • FmFreaks
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2011, 12:55:51 AM »
Yeah, I bet LAX will have at least 8 airlines in the beginning.  3 will drop off in the first day for no apparent reason.  2 will stick it out a few days before realizing that 1 plane serving 7 routes per week doesn't make money.  The remaining 3 will continue on for a week until two of them are clearly dominant over the third and he drops out.  Those 2 will go at it for a few months until slots are full and the 2nd airline gets frustrated that he can't expand to compete with the other airline and drops out.  The remaining airline will use up all the slots left over from the 2nd airline until he's served every significant airport on every continent.  Once he's done that he'll keep his account open but stop playing.

And there you have the evolution of LAX, LHR, NRT, etc.

Yeah same picture game after game.
The winner will as always be the one there sits up at night to grab planes fastest, and use most time on the game.

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2011, 01:09:50 AM »
And thus we have the reason some AWS games get incredibly boring.

Example, once again Lauterjung Logistics Ltd is in Heathrow and within two weeks will be a massive airline while everyone else is sat trying to play round these players who hog and know how to exploit big bases. And I bet my bottom dollar that said airline is in similar bug EU airports in the other games.

Offline mhardebeck

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  • Posts: 36
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2011, 03:20:16 AM »
I wonder if it would be possible to, as new worlds are introduced, to build in functionality that would prohibit an airline from going into the same base airport game after game.  For example, if I had used LHR as my base in Modern Times #3 and that game is still active then I would not be able to use that as a base for any additional game I may join.  Or, maybe logic can be built in that only allows a user to pick a particular base one out of every 4 games or something.  I think that might help with competition and allow others a chance at a large base that seem to always get picked by the same players.  Just my two cents...

altmants

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2011, 03:51:25 AM »
Since the game engine changed, this problem has severely existed.

Here's the reason why................................

Hidden Secret #1: Is actually far far far safer to hub at a top 10 airport over a Medium/Semi Large airport. (Despite sami's warning: aka careful about choosing your hub at large places, etc)
Rationale: These airports are 100% safe from new entrant competitors further down the line. AKA, large big airlines CANNOT setup a new base here.

Example...
Take a look at ATL, despite there are 7 airlines based there(as do all other bases), the number of airlines will eventually drop down to 2 carriers. And in most cases, it will drop down to a single dominant carrier. Once that happens, you are COMPLETELY SAFE! NO LARGE SUPER AIRLINE CAN START A BASE HERE. You can expand slowly and enjoy the peace of mind.

Compare this to...
IAD(Washington Dulles): This is a medium to large airport with decent demand. It is NOT in the top 10 airports. There are currently 4 airlines based there which is far less then 7 out of JFK(so some people figure this airport is less risky, FALSE!). As time goes on, the number of airlines will drop to 2 carriers as usually. And eventually just 1 carrier. You have fought hard to become the sole carrier here. So you think you are now the sole carrier and now you are safe. All your hard work is now going to waste. Don't be fooled, By this time, the top Airlines who are making Mega Millions are looking to start a new base. If several SUPER LARGE carriers start a new base at your Hub, you will face increased competition. Even if you manage to fend them off, Another Mega carrier could start a new base here, You will forever face competition.

Super Risky Medium Sized Airports List(THESE ARE AIRPORTS THAT THE SUPER CARRIERS WILL OPEN A SECOND BASE AT!)
USA Examples...
-DTW, MSP, EWR, MIA, SFO, SEA, IAD, PHL, FLL, MCO  <<--- I WILL GUARANTEE THAT THESE AIRPORTS WILL BE A SECOND BASE ASAP

---------------------
So with all that said and done, That is why All the large top 10 airports are being filled so QUICKLY! It would be unwise to not be in the top 10 airports!

Pike

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2011, 04:49:40 AM »
Agreed.

Even in my reintroduction to AWS, using the Beginner's Game, I saw this in action.  I set up in IAH, and thanks to the
Top 10 protection, have @88% of the market share with no worries about another carrier making any significant progress against
me. 

If you can survive the initial onslaught, a Top 10 airport does seem like the way to go.

Offline Minto Typhoon

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2011, 06:50:56 AM »
x8 airlines in HKG.

Pike

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2011, 06:55:14 AM »
x8 airlines in HKG.

Ouch.  And with no where to go even after bases open up.

altmants

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2011, 07:09:03 AM »
Agreed.

Even in my reintroduction to AWS, using the Beginner's Game, I saw this in action.  I set up in IAH, and thanks to the
Top 10 protection, have @88% of the market share with no worries about another carrier making any significant progress against
me. 

If you can survive the initial onslaught, a Top 10 airport does seem like the way to go.

EXACTLY! I'm glad someone else realized this too. The Top 10 Protection is the main PROBLEM in this game!

Offline Sigma

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2011, 07:15:00 AM »
So with all that said and done, That is why All the large top 10 airports are being filled so QUICKLY! It would be unwise to not be in the top 10 airports!

Yeah, that was discussed fairly extensively when the change was made (though sami never made any comment except as to say that he might change it in the future; that was at least a year ago now).  And, for what it's worth (i.e. nothing) I completely agree with you.

We call the Top Airports "fortresses" because they cannot be defeated.  Once you wipe out the competition you are completely safe the remainder of the game.  Only your own stupidity will BK you.  Whereas those starting in The Top 10-20 airports are really the most likely to not make it through a game -- they can never be "fortressed" and are always subject to the whims of whomever wants to open a new base there.  Their only protection is to slot-grab, which promotes further negative behaviors.  

The game actively encourages going after players who stayed out of the Top 10 airports; or, to bring up a previous point of yours, were forced to go to an airport below a Top 10 because of "overcrowding" at them and the players being locked out.  The game forces them to become future chum for those fortressed in their Top 10 bases.

Pike

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 07:27:05 AM »
Yeah, that was discussed fairly extensively when the change was made (though sami never made any comment except as to say that he might change it in the future; that was at least a year ago now).  And, for what it's worth (i.e. nothing) I completely agree with you.

We call the Top Airports "fortresses" because they cannot be defeated.  Once you wipe out the competition you are completely safe the remainder of the game.  Only your own stupidity will BK you.  Whereas those starting in The Top 10-20 airports are really the most likely to not make it through a game -- they can never be "fortressed" and are always subject to the whims of whomever wants to open a new base there.  Their only protection is to slot-grab, which promotes further negative behaviors.  

The game actively encourages going after players who stayed out of the Top 10 airports; or, to bring up a previous point of yours, were forced to go to an airport below a Top 10 because of "overcrowding" at them and the players being locked out.  The game forces them to become future chum for those fortressed in their Top 10 bases.

It seems like there has to be some sort of way to even this out...perhaps a basing 'penalty' for an airline HQ'd at a Top10 airport?  While an airline HQ'ing at the #66 airport gets a discount for additional bases?

Offline Sigma

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  • Posts: 1920
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 07:49:32 AM »
It seems like there has to be some sort of way to even this out...perhaps a basing 'penalty' for an airline HQ'd at a Top10 airport?  While an airline HQ'ing at the #66 airport gets a discount for additional bases?

GoGreenCEO proposed something I was in favor of when the feature was first announced.  And that was a restriction that you couldn't open a base in an airport that was smaller than your HQ -- you could go up in size as far as you wanted, but not down.  I thought we could perhaps tweak it to 1 size less than your HQ just to give the people at the top some chance of expanding.  But otherwise, I thought it was a pretty good idea.  It keeps competition between players of roughly comparable size and it encouraged entry into smaller airports because the smaller your airport the more airports 'above' you that you could expand to.

Offline type45

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2011, 09:05:02 AM »
Yeah, that was discussed fairly extensively when the change was made (though sami never made any comment except as to say that he might change it in the future; that was at least a year ago now).  And, for what it's worth (i.e. nothing) I completely agree with you.

We call the Top Airports "fortresses" because they cannot be defeated.  Once you wipe out the competition you are completely safe the remainder of the game.  Only your own stupidity will BK you.  Whereas those starting in The Top 10-20 airports are really the most likely to not make it through a game -- they can never be "fortressed" and are always subject to the whims of whomever wants to open a new base there.  Their only protection is to slot-grab, which promotes further negative behaviors.  

The game actively encourages going after players who stayed out of the Top 10 airports; or, to bring up a previous point of yours, were forced to go to an airport below a Top 10 because of "overcrowding" at them and the players being locked out.  The game forces them to become future chum for those fortressed in their Top 10 bases.

This is the first thing come up in my mind when i know sami do this......in NA or EU under open sky it works, but in Asia or no open sky this will only make the game even less available to late comers. Every time I have a look at ZBAA and RJTT, two fortesses made by sami in Asia, I really want to "kill" him ;)

My idea on this is a bit simple: everybody can have a base in those big airports, but only ONE base/HQ. this may not solve the problem of those big boy, but at lease everybody can have a change to base there, of course, this is your problem to keep yourself alive :P

ACfly

  • Former member
Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2011, 01:09:45 PM »

Offline Teemu

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Re: HQ Crowding
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 02:31:51 PM »
Now you all know why I start in secondary airports ;)

 

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