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Author Topic: All Planes Gone Already????  (Read 17748 times)

Offline Beni

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #180 on: March 18, 2011, 08:22:22 PM »
Sami has said he's going to try to deal with this, possibly using AI airlines at the start of a game, but that is for v1.3 or later. 

It could be a good idea to have AI airlines and no more than 300 players per world.

Jps

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #181 on: March 18, 2011, 08:47:05 PM »
It could be a good idea to have AI airlines and no more than 300 players per world.
Why the limit? The player numbers work well as is. With AI airlines in the game when it starts, there would also be a lot more aircraft in the game at start, so as players force AI airlines to BK, their planes would be released to market.

Offline iFlysimX

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #182 on: March 18, 2011, 10:51:15 PM »
The are no more Used planes and to get a New A320 it takes almost 4 years.......know thats a long time considering the game is only till 2017.

Meraki

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #183 on: March 19, 2011, 03:59:30 AM »
The current used market system is a problem because the handful of airlines that do well off the starting line can afford to expand at a disgusting rate and quickly deplete the pool of aircraft while other airlines are waiting to accumulate the cash to buy used planes one at a time.

For example 1.5 game years in, StuAir in KORD has 108 aircraft and another 313 on order.

5-6am slots are completely depleted already, StuAir holding about 60% of them.

By the time [Competing Airline] gets their 5th A321 4 years from now or whatever slot selection is terrible and the larger airline can afford to muscle you out on whatever route you try to break into.

1.5 game years in, you have to wait 2/3/4 years to get a new plane, and most likely by the time it arrives [Large Airline] will have taken all the decent slots with their 300 new aircraft and you're SOL.

Hopefully it'll be fixed in v1.3, because the current way of things is rather broken.

filipebravo

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #184 on: March 19, 2011, 04:06:03 AM »
And that's why I stay away from places like KORD...  ;D

Meraki

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #185 on: March 19, 2011, 04:10:02 AM »
And that's why I stay away from places like KORD...  ;D

"Well don't base in [Airport] then!" isn't a fix to the issue.

KLAS is already a one-man show, things aren't going to improve with time.

Dorito_25

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #186 on: March 19, 2011, 01:18:43 PM »
It is actually pretty ridiculous, I've been refreshing the page at least a few times, sometime every hour today. I've seen multiple 717's, A310's, 767's and plenty of 747-200's come and go, but no 737's whatsoever. I've been at it all day just to get my second aircraft! There's no way I'm waiting all those years to order new aircraft... oh, got to go refresh...  :laugh:

Offline Minto Typhoon

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #187 on: March 19, 2011, 01:29:38 PM »
There are plenty of excellent aircraft in the used aircraft market today, but alas no sexy A320 or 737s. 
How about a modern fleet of 8 Bae146s, or Dornier 328 props - a perfect tide you over till the A320s get there.

I was lucky in this game, and am operating over 100 aircraft, including the sub-optimal fokker 70! - Beggars cannot be choosers I'm afraid to say.


Offline Sami

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #188 on: March 19, 2011, 02:17:28 PM »
It is actually pretty ridiculous

Seriously, you cannot expect to have unlimited supply of 737s, A320s etc. If none are available, choose some other model. There are various "non mainstream models" available that work just as well. For example B717 or MD-90 fleet is great for shorthaulers.

(for the record: I don't know if all 737s are already sold, or are they just gone fast when coming to market.. but in case they are all sold, then they are and "that's it", they can't appear off nowhere)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 02:38:14 PM by sami »

altmants

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #189 on: March 19, 2011, 05:18:41 PM »
You can order NEW B717 or B757 and have them arrive within a year, not 4 year waiting periods like the B737 or A320.

Both are good aircraft.

Offline Blur CEO

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #190 on: March 19, 2011, 05:47:58 PM »
the 717 i think is viewed as a red headed step child of Boeing, it's not a bad plane if you use it right. I love the thing is this game.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #191 on: March 19, 2011, 06:00:04 PM »
the 717 i think is viewed as a red headed step child of Boeing, it's not a bad plane if you use it right. I love the thing is this game.

Much like it was viewed in real life. If the 717-300 had materialized, offering a small family of 100-130 seaters, it may have been diferent, but the reality is it takes up a fleet type while offering no flexibility and not covering a large range area.

That being said, I too have operated them successfully in the past. They are great in China, for example, where they can reach 90% of the domestic population.

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #192 on: March 19, 2011, 08:09:56 PM »
There are plenty of excellent aircraft in the used aircraft market today, but alas no sexy A320 or 737s. 
How about a modern fleet of 8 Bae146s, or Dornier 328 props - a perfect tide you over till the A320s get there.

I was lucky in this game, and am operating over 100 aircraft, including the sub-optimal fokker 70! - Beggars cannot be choosers I'm afraid to say.


Unfortunately, I have found all of those types to be money losers unless you're sticking to a regional route system. I had BUR-SEA all to myself in one game and it went into the red even with 4 flights a day with an F-70, which really isn't bad for regional/commuter work. Forget more than 500 miles. It doesn't work.  I really didn't want to run KTUS-KFAT flights in this game to make a point.

Meraki

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #193 on: March 19, 2011, 09:06:38 PM »
Seriously, you cannot expect to have unlimited supply of 737s, A320s etc. If none are available, choose some other model. There are various "non mainstream models" available that work just as well. For example B717 or MD-90 fleet is great for shorthaulers.

I would have loved the MD90, but the production line was closed before the game started.

altmants

  • Former member
Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #194 on: March 20, 2011, 07:07:37 AM »
I wish the 737-400 was available too. Then the 737 would have two different production lines.

Offline Minto Typhoon

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #195 on: March 20, 2011, 09:04:04 AM »
Unfortunately, I have found all of those types to be money losers unless you're sticking to a regional route system. I had BUR-SEA all to myself in one game and it went into the red even with 4 flights a day with an F-70, which really isn't bad for regional/commuter work. Forget more than 500 miles. It doesn't work.  I really didn't want to run KTUS-KFAT flights in this game to make a point.

these aircraft are an interim solution.  I'm operating the Fokker 70's and making money with them until they are replaced with dash8s and A319s.   

The 146 isn't a bad aircraft either, as an interim solution.  Order them today, and abuse them till your A320s come available.


Offline Beni

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #196 on: March 20, 2011, 03:05:41 PM »
Many people (and I'm afraid that Sami too) forget than THIS IS A GAME AND WE ARE HERE FOR FUN. It is not funny to wait 3-4 years for a plane to play with and it is not funny to swimm in a mountain of debts using the avaliable planes. You (Sami) have designed the game system and you have become planes like Il-96 and even TU204 in money wasters not only for the excesive fuel comsumption but for the incredible manteniance costs.. I'm paying more than 5 millions per month as fixed cost for 2 Il-96 with less than 10 years, Double that what I'm paying for 4 757-200 with 20 years.  

Are you really telling me that is there any "REAL" alternative to Boeing and Airbus?? I'm sorry, but not in your game.

We are here to fun and you are here to earn money. If we are happy with the game, you will earn credits and you have to understand that I cant be happy paying my credits to wait 3 game years for a good plane or ruining my company flying the avaliable planes.

I like this game and I'm here from the beginning but I think there is a problem that must be solved. I had a prosperous airline and now I have a ruined airline becouse I tried to play with the planes avaliables without waiting 3 game years.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #197 on: March 20, 2011, 03:44:53 PM »
Many people (and I'm afraid that Sami too) forget than THIS IS A GAME AND WE ARE HERE FOR FUN. It is not funny to wait 3-4 years for a plane to play with and it is not funny to swimm in a mountain of debts using the avaliable planes. You (Sami) have designed the game system and you have become planes like Il-96 and even TU204 in money wasters not only for the excesive fuel comsumption but for the incredible manteniance costs.. I'm paying more than 5 millions per month as fixed cost for 2 Il-96 with less than 10 years, Double that what I'm paying for 4 757-200 with 20 years.  

Are you really telling me that is there any "REAL" alternative to Boeing and Airbus?? I'm sorry, but not in your game.

We are here to fun and you are here to earn money. If we are happy with the game, you will earn credits and you have to understand that I cant be happy paying my credits to wait 3 game years for a good plane or ruining my company flying the avaliable planes.

I like this game and I'm here from the beginning but I think there is a problem that must be solved. I had a prosperous airline and now I have a ruined airline becouse I tried to play with the planes avaliables without waiting 3 game years.

Yes, we are here for fun. ANd no, there is not a good alternative to A and B, at least not for long haul aircraft. For short haul, the E-Jets, larger CRJ's, and even the new Antonov's (148/158) are good jets.

And a problem? No, no problem. The stats for each plane are at worst close to real life (and most are right on). The Russian metal sucks, both in AWS and real life. Beautiful to look at, IMHO, but garbage in most cases to fly (although I have made TU-154's work for a short time in the past...)

You need a quality wide body? 10 month game time wait for A300/A310. Not the longest legged, but profitable (the A300-600R may be the best plane in AWS). Need a quality narrowbody? 5 months for the E-170, 5 (at last check) for the 717. Props (except the Dash 8-400) are almost all under 4 months.

So, again, we ARE here for fun, but it would be no fun without realism. Go check the back log for a new A320 or 738 in real life. Both are over 1000. Could you get one of those next week? Go check out Victorville. Tell me how many shiny 73G's or A319's you see parked there. Some, yes, but not enough for 500 airlines to all have 100 aircraft fleets.

Sami has done an AMAZING job with AWS. Find a way to enjoy it without complaining that you can not get a 777 in 3 months time, please!

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline Beni

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #198 on: March 20, 2011, 04:50:43 PM »
So, again, we ARE here for fun, but it would be no fun without realism. Go check the back log for a new A320 or 738 in real life. Both are over 1000. Could you get one of those next week? Go check out Victorville. Tell me how many shiny 73G's or A319's you see parked there. Some, yes, but not enough for 500 airlines to all have 100 aircraft fleets.

Sami has done an AMAZING job with AWS. Find a way to enjoy it without complaining that you can not get a 777 in 3 months time, please!

Don

Dont talk about realism when an airline with two years of life is able to put orders for more than 400 new planes. Is this what you understand as realistic?

I have my oppinion and I can explain it, I'm sorry if you dont like but it is mine. I respect Sami's work and I say I like the game, but the game has a BIG problem with the planes and this problem have to be solved.

I respect Sami's workd but I'm nto going to say all the time "Oh, thank you Sami, thank you for this perfect game........." if I consider the game has problems. With respect and calmly but I pay, so I have the right to complain. It is business.

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: All Planes Gone Already????
« Reply #199 on: March 20, 2011, 05:31:51 PM »
I am not arguing your right to complain, nor am I saying you do not have a right to an opinion.

I am, however, saying that that 2 year old airline with 400 ordered planes is the exception, not the rule. AWS is realistic in more ways than it is not. In the end, it IS a game, and in all games there is a way to exploit and gain an advantage.

But, that was not your complaint in the post I replied to. The complaint was you had to wait 3 years for a "good" aircraft, the high costs of TU-204's and IL-96's was unrealistic, and Sami "had" to do something about it. Again, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect your opinion. I may have come across as harsh, so I apologize for that. My point was, specifically in reply to your complaints, that there is NOT a 3 year wait for a "good" plane, there is a 3 year wait for the planes you want. There are several planes that are far better than the TU-204 and IL-96 that can be had in under a year, and in several cases under 6 months. If you want A320's, 737's, A330's, etc, order some, get in line. In the mean time, order something as a stop gap--717's instead of 73G's, A300's instead of A330's--and replace them with the "better" plane after 3 years. This is a long game world, and as time goes on, the order books will ease up and quality used aircraft will be available on the board.

Don

Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

 

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