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Author Topic: Route Market Surveys  (Read 766 times)

Overwined

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Route Market Surveys
« on: March 02, 2011, 12:46:14 AM »
I know a lot of people would like to be able to view competitor pricing on various routes. I know they would also like to peek in on LF% for those routes as well. While in real life I'm sure airlines have plenty of info on competitors' pricing, they may have less when it comes to LF%. I can understand why this information is not broadcast in the game as it would make price wars too easy.

However, I think a penalty mechanic could be put in place to add risk to anyone seeking this information. Basically, any player could order their Marketing Department to do a Market Survey of a particular route. Duration could set so that you can get a one day snapshot of whomever flies that route. This would be cheap, but given existing levels of variance it wouldn't be supremely accurate. Accuracy could also be heavily affected by the morale of the marketing department. Of course they could make the duration much longer, but at a heavy cost.

Prices should be somewhat prohibitive and will be impacted by duration, and the size and activity on the route.

I think that by making this information by request and at a cost, you give airlines information, but with added risk. The risk being that they paid money for it and what is true today is not necessarily true tomorrow. To add a layer of risk, perhaps all players on a given route could be alerted when any other player orders a market survey on that route.

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 01:13:03 AM »
This idea would be absolutely amazing, but there is 1 issue - pricing doesn't actually affect LFs as much as you would think, and there is basically no competition whatsoever in the sim.
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Overwined

  • Former member
Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 02:16:44 AM »
This idea would be absolutely amazing, but there is 1 issue - pricing doesn't actually affect LFs as much as you would think, and there is basically no competition whatsoever in the sim.

You could argue that it should as it does quite a bit in RL, though this may be a factor of the second thing you mentioned. Yeah, I've noticed that there isn't much competition, though it does occur. I'm running on a few hotly contested lines and I feel like I'm flying blind when it comes to pricing. I imagine the new upcoming Real World scenario will have some competition after awhile.

Offline BobTheCactus

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 03:02:41 AM »
I have no doubt that pricing is king in real world, but not in AWS, and that's what we're requesting features for. A suggestion - a better way to gain market share is to increase frequency instead of reducing price - AWS passengers are very picky about when they leave :)
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Offline Sigma

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 05:33:15 AM »
You could argue that it should as it does quite a bit in RL, though this may be a factor of the second thing you mentioned. Yeah, I've noticed that there isn't much competition, though it does occur. I'm running on a few hotly contested lines and I feel like I'm flying blind when it comes to pricing. I imagine the new upcoming Real World scenario will have some competition after awhile.

Bob's point wasn't that there is no competition in the game, in the literal sense of 2+ people operating the same route (there's plenty of that), but that there is little competition in the game in that there's little you can do to affect your marketshare.  There's really only one effective means of drawing people in AWS -- more frequency than the next guy.  Everything else (price, type of plane, comfort levels, etc) is, by and large, a moot point; any impact to your marketshare is small and almost never worth the cost of providing that differing service.

So all the "market surveys" in the world aren't going to help you one bit until that little problem is fixed.

All it will be is, much like Route Marketing, something that people who don't know any better sink money into while experienced players know better and kick the butt of the newer players with their extra cashflow that they're not "wasting" on needless expenditures.  So it will actually have the opposite effect intended.

Offline powi

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 08:04:03 AM »
You can make a good guess about competitors LF by comparing the number of seats he's offering to his market share.

Offline Sami

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 05:19:49 PM »
I believe something of similar sort has been talked in the past; and also I feel that some 'market research' feature would be nice, since airlines cannot magically discover estimated passenger demands for hundreds of routes at once (= mouse click).. So perhaps at least expand the current route planning so that you can only 'discover' X routes per day/week, depending on your staff, ..etc.etc. But something to think for the future.

Jps

  • Former member
Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 09:34:37 PM »
I believe something of similar sort has been talked in the past; and also I feel that some 'market research' feature would be nice, since airlines cannot magically discover estimated passenger demands for hundreds of routes at once (= mouse click).. So perhaps at least expand the current route planning so that you can only 'discover' X routes per day/week, depending on your staff, ..etc.etc. But something to think for the future.
This could also slow down the rapid expansion of the start, which would be good... And wouldn't feel artificial, either.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 12:25:03 AM »
I believe something of similar sort has been talked in the past; and also I feel that some 'market research' feature would be nice, since airlines cannot magically discover estimated passenger demands for hundreds of routes at once (= mouse click).. So perhaps at least expand the current route planning so that you can only 'discover' X routes per day/week, depending on your staff, ..etc.etc. But something to think for the future.

That sounds like a good idea.

The way I would implement this by making accuracy of the market research for a route equal to route image.  If you are not flying, it is zero.  If you are flying it for a while to the point your route image is 100%, the accuracy should be 100%.

For routes player is not flying - player would have to "order" market research of a route, and pay some money for it.  Maybe accuracy should have different levels - with difference price levels of the market research.

Overwined

  • Former member
Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 04:43:58 AM »
That sounds like a good idea.

The way I would implement this by making accuracy of the market research for a route equal to route image.  If you are not flying, it is zero.  If you are flying it for a while to the point your route image is 100%, the accuracy should be 100%.

For routes player is not flying - player would have to "order" market research of a route, and pay some money for it.  Maybe accuracy should have different levels - with difference price levels of the market research.


This is an interesting offshoot of my idea, though I might modify it a bit to make the floor at like 30-40% accuracy for 0 route image (remember information that is only half. right is damn dangerous) and as you say 100% for 100. It has a logical foundation as an airline that runs several flights a day along a single route is bound to be aware of what's going on around them. Maybe also the price of the elective market survey could be affected by the route image, since a marketing firm would have to dig up all the facts (expensive) about a totally unflown route.

Offline schro

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 05:29:57 AM »
I believe something of similar sort has been talked in the past; and also I feel that some 'market research' feature would be nice, since airlines cannot magically discover estimated passenger demands for hundreds of routes at once (= mouse click).. So perhaps at least expand the current route planning so that you can only 'discover' X routes per day/week, depending on your staff, ..etc.etc. But something to think for the future.

Actually, you can in the US - O/D stats for hundreds of routes: http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/x-50%20Role_files/consumerairfarereport.htm

Entire wing of the government producing reports: http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/aviatanalysisprog.htm

Offline Sanabas

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Re: Route Market Surveys
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 06:10:17 AM »
I believe something of similar sort has been talked in the past; and also I feel that some 'market research' feature would be nice, since airlines cannot magically discover estimated passenger demands for hundreds of routes at once (= mouse click).. So perhaps at least expand the current route planning so that you can only 'discover' X routes per day/week, depending on your staff, ..etc.etc. But something to think for the future.

Unless there are dramatic changes between worlds, I can see this helping experienced players and hurting beginners. It will also encourage people to remain in the same airport in multiple games, and destroy the ability to plan your initial base via a temporary airline that BKs. I've only played part of one game world so far, but I now have a decent idea of what's available from JFK, along with which routes seem abnormally large or abnormally small. (JFK to BOS, ROC, BTV, SYR are big routes, IAD, PVD, PWM, PHL not so much) Because I have that experience & prior knowledge, if I start a new airline at JFK in a future world, I don't need to 'discover' that ROC & BTV are highly profitable despite being relatively smaller airports, while IAD & PHL aren't despite being huge. I already know that, so I just drop my planes on JFK-ROC without needing to discover the actual demand.

 

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