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Author Topic: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'  (Read 1570 times)

harry131

  • Former member
Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« on: November 13, 2010, 07:40:35 PM »
I wonder what the rules are in this regard.
So I am a small and upcoming (or was upcoming) airline at DFW. Isku Airlines probably saw my market share rise at a consistent rate so guess what the CEO decides to do...
Every single route I am flying has been attacked.... Isku has doubled them up.. Knowing that it would kill a small airline...
Why such insecurity? Why have an all out attack on a small airline??
This is not something that happens in the real world. Does it happen on the "busy and important" routes.. Yes!. Does it happen on EVERY SINGLE (small, medium and big) airport route of a SINGLE airline... No!!

Sami.. can you comment if there are any rules regarding this?

Online Sami

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 07:49:52 PM »
Deliberately & widely targeting another airline (with for example the intent to force him out) is CLEARLY forbidden in the rules.


Offline ukatlantic

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 08:25:00 PM »
I've looked at your routes and fully appreciate your frustration, it hardly seem's fair when you work hard to find over such a short period that another airline has taken offence to your presence.  I hope SAMI can do something to help you out, if not maybe you could approach the other airlines alliance managers and ask if they could ask him him to reduce his presence on your routes - it is always an option and you never know they may help.  Good Luck, I hope it gets sorted for you  ;)

jode

  • Former member
Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 09:00:50 PM »
I've looked at your routes and fully appreciate your frustration, it hardly seem's fair when you work hard to find over such a short period that another airline has taken offence to your presence.  I hope SAMI can do something to help you out, if not maybe you could approach the other airlines alliance managers and ask if they could ask him him to reduce his presence on your routes - it is always an option and you never know they may help.  Good Luck, I hope it gets sorted for you  ;)
I appreciate the frustration also. I have tested in the last 4 weeks some airline-simulators /games and they have with one exception the same problem. The problem is "automated flights" where practically amateurs or revengefull and characterless gamers do the flightplanning. The results are oversaturation, littered routes, wrong airplane types and so on.
There are IMHO two solutions:
1. Nonautomated flights, where you have to do everything (departures, repairs etc) manually and online (that's the unrealistic way). I saw it in one simulation. If you have not enough time due to your real life job you have the possibility of using preferably long haul flights. Time acceleration is nonexistent.
2. Let the flihtplanning part do a well programmed AI, because to be more realistically a CEO doesn't do the flightplanning personally. He has professionals in his staff.

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Offline Sigma

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 09:46:44 PM »
It is against the rules, very clearly, but regardless it is a common occurrence that all to often goes on without someone complaining, so it continues.  It's good to see someone say something so sami can take action, which hopefully he will in a very decisive manner.

harry131

  • Former member
Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2010, 08:00:02 AM »
Sami can you help me out here.. I am broke and coming in red every week.. This guys will succeed in getting rid of me by breaking the rules...

Offline Andriy

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2010, 11:28:25 AM »
looks like real life ;D by the time the authorities would intervene, TurnKey would be bankrupt and out of business. There would be an investigation, Isku will call it a tragic misunderstanding and that they "did not mean any harm" and will contribute $5 mil for Turn Key Memorial ;D

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2010, 11:50:06 AM »
looks like real life ;D by the time the authorities would intervene, TurnKey would be bankrupt and out of business. There would be an investigation, Isku will call it a tragic misunderstanding and that they "did not mean any harm" and will contribute $5 mil for Turn Key Memorial ;D

Unfortuantely you are right, unless you have written proof that an airline was going to target you or other airlines at the base so they gain market share, then well that airline could be forced into bankruptcy by the massive fine they deserve to get hit with!  ;)

jode

  • Former member
Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2010, 12:40:25 PM »
looks like real life ;D by the time the authorities would intervene, TurnKey would be bankrupt and out of business. There would be an investigation, Isku will call it a tragic misunderstanding and that they "did not mean any harm" and will contribute $5 mil for Turn Key Memorial ;D

...and here you see the next warning http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,26494.0/topicseen.html#msg135089    ;D

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jode

  • Former member
Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2010, 01:02:22 PM »
And in the following link  you see a CEO decision (ticket prices) which only works in an airline simulation game http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,26495.0/topicseen.html#msg135097  ;D

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harry131

  • Former member
Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2010, 06:38:27 PM »
Sami.. Where are you?
So now I am officially in red overall.. I have new planes sitting and I can't even put them in air coz I don't have $$ to set routes up.
I guess the end is near for me.
Cheers!!

Sami can you help me out here.. I am broke and coming in red every week.. This guys will succeed in getting rid of me by breaking the rules...

Online Sami

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2010, 06:50:19 PM »
Here I am ..

My first comment on this thread is a general comment about the rules, I have not checked the situation until now. I cannot see when he opened the routes but if they were opened rather simultaneously and only to the same destinations that you fly, then I can considered it to be targeted.

But looking further, this alone isn't really enough since an airline can of course fly to any destination they wish, and very often the "list of destinations & routes" page can serve as a good hint for other airlines about potential new destinations.

Iksu airlines seems to fly to every quoted destination at maximum of the true demand, so there is no oversupply at all. Furthermore his prices are pretty much spot on with the 'suggested' prices from the system, so there's no price dumping either. And not flying with excessively big frequencies either.

So with this detailed info checked, this is still "legal", and you seem to share the markets about 50/50 in most of the routes flown by you two. But the method of his expansion rapidly (?) to most (?) of your new routes is something that I'd frown upon.


So now I am officially in red overall.. I have new planes sitting and I can't even put them in air coz I don't have $$ to set routes up.

You can get the slots even if you're in the red.

I checked also your airline and one major issue is that you're not effectively using the CRJ's capacity. You should use HD seating in my mind to fully utilize the plane's capacity on these very short sectors (pax won't mind on a short hop). In other words, you're not getting all the income you could. And the planes are brand new, thus very expensive to lease; and with rather high fuel prices regional jets are never an easy way. Actually if you check your competition, he is using ATR 72, which carries about 68 pax, while your CRJ has 75 seats (could have 85-90!). But I guess you are using 30-50% more fuel? Having C class seats is an advantage though and brings in much money.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 06:54:45 PM by sami »

harry131

  • Former member
Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2010, 07:05:18 PM »
ok thanks.

He opened withing 36hours on each and every single one of my routes... He was not even present there before.. All of a sudden he wants to come and double up ALL MY ROUTES at the same time.. even when there are several UN-FLOWN routes in ~ distance.
How much more obvious does it need to be that this is a direct attack....

I guess benefit of the doubt goes to the big guy... Cheers to that!!!

I am out!
My only regret: I bought more credits two days ago because game was going good.

Online Sami

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 07:17:21 PM »
Indeed, if he has deliberately picked only the routes you had served and popped a considerable fleet to those routes (seems to be, if he had no presence there before?), I would say it is not ethical. While that may be fine as per the regular rules of pricing & supply, it's not within the spirit of the rules, and I think the general idea is quite well described in the rule texts (although always impossible to write every possible variation down).

http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Manual/General/Rules/#Competition


My only regret: I bought more credits two days ago because game was going good.

If you did notice, you do have the option to restart without any extra charge for a number of times in each game world.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 07:20:52 PM by sami »

Offline Bored

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Re: Under attack by Isku 'The Bully'
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2010, 10:29:43 PM »
Hi,

I guess I should say something about this matter as well. During past couple of days I've about tripled my ATR fleet and doubled my Embraer fleet. I've had some extra time to hang around the used aircraft market to be able to manage this.

After getting all these aircrafts what do I do? I open new routes. Why do I do this? To expand and grow bigger.

I was accused of going after one single airline, which though based in the same city, was in no way a direct competitor to me. At the same time I was accused of opening routes on all of his destinations. It was also pointed out that there are other available routes and destinations to be flown. It's true that I started to operate into my competitors destinations and it's also true that there are other destinations to choose from.

No one seems to take into account that I opened several new routes and destinations. Up to the point where ATR usage is pointful. After this I started to expand with Embraers. All in all I've opened hundreds of flights all around US and longhaul (currently I have over 7k weekly departures in total). Like mentioned above, all this in a couple of days (realtime). All routes are with about max daily capacity. None of the routes are over supplied nor have I done any radical price discounts. This is the same for all hundreds of flights I opened. All in all, I feel a bit wrongly accused in this.

Is this ethical? Not necessary. Is this the goal in this game, to compete? I would say so. I think that the main goal is to have fun though? I've been bullied into BK many times by bigger airlines. Which is not what I meant to do in here. But what happened to me? I took my lesson, learned, picked up and went ahead :) and I'm still having fun playing this game. I hope you are as well?

Brgds, Iksu


 

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