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Author Topic: Slot Hogging !!!  (Read 8234 times)

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2010, 07:09:31 AM »
THI definitely is hogging slots. As my first time really experiencing it, I can definitely say that it does feel like it detracts from the game to have a competitor running 80+ planes with another 60+ on order, not one even 100 pax capacity, operated from the world's busiest airport (historically, not sure if it is considered so in the sim right now). I personally don't feel the strategy is an any way truly competitive or sporting as it requires nothing but a commitment to coming to the computer every 35 mins to order 2 more of whatever cheap planes you can find on the market. That feeling aside though, I just want to be clear that I do recognize it as an allowed way of playing the game, so my beef isn't with THI in choosing to use an allowed strategy, but lies with the development of this sim and the broken system that we currently have. I have seen some suggestions on how to prevent this as I feel it has no place in the sim. In the real world, airlines don't get away with it. Small planes don't bring the pax handling revenue the airports want and don't provide the income from fuel and catering sales the larger planes do. Even if a contract is locking a slot to an airline, a governing body can step in and take away the slots to be put on lottery for airlines that would use the slot to fill an actual public need at an appropriate level for the demand.

I hope 1.3 brings some realism in this area and makes it so I don't feel like I should be wishing THI an unfortunate accident.... oh, sorry, that could be taken the wrong way. I don't want him dead or anything, just something like a family member messing on the computer and bankrupting his company so I can get some slots I want. On a completely unrelated note, could a game developer be held as an accessory to a murder provoked by a game?

I hope you're drunk.  :laugh:

Daemus

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2010, 08:20:53 AM »
I hope you're drunk.  :laugh:

Just trying to create a little humor about the way I am sure many feel when they see a competitor hoard slots, while they themselves are trying to run what I think could be called a more realistic operation and are punished for doing so.  ;D

THI

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2010, 09:22:16 AM »
you were not in jetage 2 ??????
u did not see what wypaskes made with me ?

haha.

as far as i am profitable, it is legal.
i also do not oversupply routes.

but this with the slots.
i was so angry, that sami wanted to kick me several times out of the game.
now i do it the way, wypaskes did it with me.
sorry for that. but that's life.....

Daemus

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 09:57:36 AM »
you were not in jetage 2 ??????
I joined AWS in mid-September, played Beginner's and MT. This is my first Jet Age game.

I am not mad at you THI, or accusing you of cheating, just upset that the game doesn't have any mechanic to restrict the type of strategy you chose. I believe the phrase is "Don't hate the player, hate the game" works here. I can't blame you for doing something you are allowed to do, I just hope Sami takes some of the suggestions on how to curb the slot hogging problem with 1.3. It isn't something I would quit AWS over and in the next game world I join I may have to resort to taking up the strategy myself, I just really would prefer if it wasn't a viable strategy.

I think the thing that really bugs me about it is that I can see no real way to put a stop to it on my end, short of putting my planes on your routes and using really low ticket prices to force you into a "who has a bigger bankroll" situation (either you don't change routes and go broke or you change routes and the continuous slot fees chew up your income statement as it is cheaper for me to move a 150 pax plane vs your 3x 50 pax planes). I could do that but drastically reducing ticket prices to run another single airline out of business is deemed unfair and not legal within AWS.

Maybe I am just missing something but the only viable counter I can see, when you already have a slots monopoly, is against the rules....  ???

THI

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2010, 10:30:15 AM »
also this will not work.
why.

because:

the winner is always this person, who has more slots.
f.e.

route demand 500.
u use 5x daily your dc7
i will use 12 x daily my very very very nice bristols.
you will be the looser. does not matter if you even sell the tickets for 1 $.
the best: sell for 1$ and put in premium seats. you also will loose.

that is the game.
i needed a long time to accept this and on my "lesson" here, i made a lot
of enemies.

BUT IT IS A GAME !!!! not more. as more early you accept that, you will
be a nice guy here with some friends.

we can make a deal:
i want to concentrate in the early years my airline for domestics.
the 747 i will use for some longhaul.
so. what i can offer you: make the international demand with your DC8 fleet
and your VC10/707's and i make the domestic. you will have fun i jetage and
i will not put my very very very nice bristol fleet on your routes......

deal ?

if not we will make a great show for the others. bristols and c46's VS DC7 and Convair 8/9
« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 10:32:18 AM by THI »

Daemus

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2010, 11:12:15 AM »
Thanks for being willing to work with me THI but, regarding international demand, you do realize we are at KORD, right? Canada is about the extent of any international demand.  :P

Regarding the argument over whether a move to push you out with matching routes and dropping ticket prices, I can't "legally" find out but it would be interesting to see what would happen.

I plan on replacing my old props with jets and just take advantage of the domestic 1000+ nm routes that KORD has to offer with the higher turnaround planes. I have some new props coming in and will get those on some shorter routes, along with shorter routes for jets when they work with my jet scheduling, but once I run out of slots and old planes to replace, I just plan on finding a hub to get started at for expansion.

This was a firsthand learning experience and I will just have to see how I want to do things in my next game. For now, I am just going to focus on working with what I have and learn from this game. If in the next game world I play I see you set up shop at my airport, there will be no hesitation from me in making the choice to rush for slots.  ;)

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14536
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2010, 11:20:36 AM »
I will probably introduce slot quotas in v.1.3.  ie. XX new slots per year max

THI

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2010, 11:53:04 AM »
daemus.

next lesson:
in jetage you can do nearly whatever you want and you will not loose.
i tell you again: spend one hour by analyzing routes from chicago to europe and asia.
i remember i have had about 100 707's and they only flew international (not canada).
so. chicago is good for international flights (in this game)

i tell you again:
if i find out, you cost me traffic, i will use premium seats for my hudge vickers fleet (44pax)
and i will go on every route you fly. and that will not be a good experience for you. and i do not brake
the rules. if you want this fight, just let me know.


DEAL OR NO DEAL !

i myself looking forward to have a kind of "friendship" with you.
but do u want that ?

Daemus

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2010, 01:20:53 PM »
if i find out, you cost me traffic, i will use premium seats for my hudge vickers fleet (44pax)
and i will go on every route you fly. and that will not be a good experience for you. and i do not brake
the rules. if you want this fight, just let me know.


DEAL OR NO DEAL !

i myself looking forward to have a kind of "friendship" with you.
but do u want that ?

I will send you a private message as this has gotten a bit far off-topic from the original thread discussion.

COUGAR

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2010, 06:12:47 AM »
sorry to jump in the middle of a very interesting discussion! :)

just wanted to share a learning: at the very beginning of the game, i ordered a small lot of 707's planning to fly *certain* international routes. The popularity of this particular model meant a wait of 2-4 years: now i have 707's starting to trickle in and realize that there are no slots available at the originally planned destinations.

perhaps i should have bought a bunch of DC7's to "hold" slots at the airport till the 707's came in!

well live and learn! :)

LOT767

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2010, 06:53:40 AM »
sorry to jump in the middle of a very interesting discussion! :)

just wanted to share a learning: at the very beginning of the game, i ordered a small lot of 707's planning to fly *certain* international routes. The popularity of this particular model meant a wait of 2-4 years: now i have 707's starting to trickle in and realize that there are no slots available at the originally planned destinations.

perhaps i should have bought a bunch of DC7's to "hold" slots at the airport till the 707's came in!

well live and learn! :)

ding ding! That's the name of the game.

Offline Bored

  • Members
  • Posts: 1188
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2010, 04:35:22 PM »
This quite a thread... Quite aggressive approach and feelings  :-\ At one point I was laughing and next feeling sorry the dude "taking back becouse this was done to me too".

LOL, this is a game and you're supposed to have fun. Well, if that's your cup of tea...

Iksu

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2010, 06:10:35 PM »
sorry to jump in the middle of a very interesting discussion! :)

just wanted to share a learning: at the very beginning of the game, i ordered a small lot of 707's planning to fly *certain* international routes. The popularity of this particular model meant a wait of 2-4 years: now i have 707's starting to trickle in and realize that there are no slots available at the originally planned destinations.

perhaps i should have bought a bunch of DC7's to "hold" slots at the airport till the 707's came in!

well live and learn! :)

And this is one of the main reasons we need a "slot cap" at the beginning of the game.

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,20233.0.html

-Matt

Offline JonesyUK

  • Members
  • Posts: 653
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2010, 06:54:06 PM »
I don't feel there's a need for a slot cap/quota/etc. The game has too many artificial restrictions as it is. It's much better just to increase the slots by having the airport expand surely?
Not instantly but over a year or two they could add a new runway say by announcing that they're applying for planning permission for a new runway once capacity hits 90%, then a few months later announcing permission has been accepted and building eill commence, etc.

Offline ekaneti

  • Members
  • Posts: 844
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2010, 11:52:49 PM »
I don't feel there's a need for a slot cap/quota/etc. The game has too many artificial restrictions as it is. It's much better just to increase the slots by having the airport expand surely?
Not instantly but over a year or two they could add a new runway say by announcing that they're applying for planning permission for a new runway once capacity hits 90%, then a few months later announcing permission has been accepted and building eill commence, etc.

It is more like the capacity of the airport. You could remove slots from non-slot controlled airports but it wouldnt change the fact that the airport can only handle a certain number of movements per hour. Slots actually help improve on-time performance. Imagine if all the players wanted to leave at 0700, fine but your flight will be consistently late.

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2010, 08:09:04 AM »
I don't feel there's a need for a slot cap/quota/etc. The game has too many artificial restrictions as it is. It's much better just to increase the slots by having the airport expand surely?


Right, but to make it more realistic there shouldn't be like 5 airlines with free reign over a completely open airport.  The airline industry didn't start up one random day with 500 airlines and 2,000 new, unused airports.

Offline [ATA] - lilius

  • Members
  • Posts: 1650
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2010, 03:48:56 PM »
I will probably introduce slot quotas in v.1.3.  ie. XX new slots per year max

Hallelujah thank god. Best news ever!

robvanleest

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2010, 04:43:30 PM »
That is a very good idea indeed! I have just witnessed the second round of slot hogging because all of a sudden the slot capacity increased on certain airports.

Not sure how it technically should be done but I am in favor of some price adjustments of slots. It should be expensive and not only a one time fee but a continuous "subscription" fee for slots. That would mean a cap automatically because companies simply would not have the money to open a new route.


COUGAR

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2010, 12:12:09 PM »
I personally dont think that a slot cap is necessary or even realistic. The current slot system is adequate.

If I am not mistaken, the number of available slots in an airport DOES increase by a certain percentage every year.

Miltra

  • Former member
Re: Slot Hogging !!!
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2010, 10:25:58 PM »
I'm completely against slot quotas. Or, if they are introduced, there should also be a slot market, where one can buy and sell slots. Otherwise it is too restrictive!

 

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