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Author Topic: Qantas Grounds A380s  (Read 2130 times)


Offline raptorva

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 10:28:30 AM »
That was on the news tonight here. Not exactly a good thing to have an engine fail in flight on a brand new aircraft.

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2010, 10:43:55 AM »
Interesting to see.

More worried about the fact that I'm going on a university fieldtrip to New Zealand in Easter and I wanted to book on QF32 for the fact it is an A380!

Maybe something else then!

0zlw

  • Former member
Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 08:34:19 AM »
If your coming to New Zealand why fly to sydney first when you can catch the Emirates from Dubai direct.

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 08:58:43 AM »
Because money doesn't grow on trees and I'm flying LHR - SIN - SYD - CHC and the Qantas flights are the cheapest.

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 10:31:32 AM »
Nuf said.....  ;D

castelino009

  • Former member
Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 11:19:48 AM »
cannot understand why the stupid journos make a fuss only about A380.  Did thet forget what happened of B777's GE-90's (oh well if they knew about it) "s*** HAPPENS" and it can happen anywhere :)


SIMPLES

QF will get compensation from RR , so the only company to loose here is RR. A bit of bad PR for QF but they are used to LOL

VJC


Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 11:50:00 AM »

QF will get compensation from RR , so the only company to loose here is RR. A bit of bad PR for QF but they are used to LOL

VJC


I bet Airbus are breathing a sigh of relief that the blame can be squarely placed on RR and not their flagship product.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 02:33:54 PM »
 I just have to agree SO much with V.Castelino. This IS NOT a problem with any airbus product. As a matter of fact there seems to be exactly NO problems at all with the A380. The problems here is with the engine. A shame that an amazing product like the Queen of the Skies, The Amazing A380, get's its name stained by a product that appears to be less than what could be expected.

Offline JonesyUK

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 06:42:38 PM »
I just have to agree SO much with V.Castelino. This IS NOT a problem with any airbus product. As a matter of fact there seems to be exactly NO problems at all with the A380. The problems here is with the engine. A shame that an amazing product like the Queen of the Skies, The Amazing A380, get's its name stained by a product that appears to be less than what could be expected.

Bit Dramatic...

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 07:25:48 PM »
Jonesy, of course it is. It should make it easier to understand. But nonetheless this is NOT a problem with the A380 as the media world wide reports. It is an engine problem. Which same media do NOT report

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 08:21:02 PM »
Jonesy, of course it is. It should make it easier to understand. But nonetheless this is NOT a problem with the A380 as the media world wide reports. It is an engine problem. Which same media do NOT report

If your Dell Computer dies, because the motherboard died, which died because there was a bad capacitor on that motherboard that the motherboard company bought from a some unnamed compay in China or Taiwan, you still have a dead Dell computer - rightly or wrongly, Dell gets the blame.  Dell did the testing and did not catch it.  Those capacitors tended to die after 3 or 4 years.

Airbus is in a similar situation here.  They may have a fine design, but if one of the components has some problems, Airbus will end up with (part of) the blame.

At least no one got hurt...

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2010, 05:22:51 AM »
 the thing is Jumbo, it is an Airbus aircraft, and on this aircraft are RR engines. Yes Airbus ends up taking most of the blame. Hardly anyone knows what engines are on any aircraft. they merely consider it part of the aircraft. Which it is not. It is and added item.
 If I bought a Dell computer, I bought a package from Dell, a computer including all the items in that computer. It is not like I bought the screen from Dell the motherboard from god knows who makes motherboards and so one. That is actually the situation with aircrafts. So the way you are comparing those two things are completely irrelevant

Offline Sigma

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2010, 05:55:24 AM »
the thing is Jumbo, it is an Airbus aircraft, and on this aircraft are RR engines. Yes Airbus ends up taking most of the blame. Hardly anyone knows what engines are on any aircraft. they merely consider it part of the aircraft. Which it is not. It is and added item.
 If I bought a Dell computer, I bought a package from Dell, a computer including all the items in that computer. It is not like I bought the screen from Dell the motherboard from god knows who makes motherboards and so one. That is actually the situation with aircrafts. So the way you are comparing those two things are completely irrelevant

You can't stick any engine you want on a plane.  Airbus has approved that engine for that plane.

To continue with the Dell analogy, it's similar to them offering several different models of monitor as part of your package.  The fact that you get to choose which monitor you get doesn't absolve Dell of even the slightest bit of responsibility in the eyes of the consumer.  They don't get to go "Well, you chose that one.  Not our fault."   A common one that used to be more common than it is today, was different engine choices available in people's cars that often weren't even produced by the manufacturer you were buying from -- selecting a different engine in your GM might get you an Isuzu-made motor, or a Mazda in a Ford and countless other variations -- but if there were ever problems, consumers don't care who made the engine, only who made the whole vehicle.  That's who they ultimately hold accountable.

Yes, Dell knows who's really at fault.  Yes, the monitor manufacturer knows that it was really their problem.  Yes, the airlines know the true story.  But, as far as the consumer is concerned who's flying the things, there's no differentiation.  They don't care who made the engines anymore than who made the bolt that shears off and causes horizontal stab failures.  You may, with some effort, get to choose which model of plane you want to fly to go somewhere so you can avoid some plane you don't want to fly, but avoiding particular engines is all but impossible for all but the most aircraft-savvy individual.

Regardless, for a short time yesterday, CNN's main headline story was Rolls-Royce wholly taking blame for the incident, not Airbus.   It doesn't change the public's perception though.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 05:57:42 AM by Sigma »

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2010, 06:30:14 AM »
 Airliners negotiate a deal to buy an Airbus aircraft and then they negotiate a deal on engines to be fitted on the aircraft. To completely different things. Sure there is a limited choice of engines. Just doesn't make a difference. Airbus does not manufacture the engines, it is NOT an Airbus product.
 If I buy a computer from Dell, and a screen from the home depot or whatever other store that has nothing to do with Dell, one has got to be a big fat idiot if one blames Dell if the screen fails to work. And this is actually the situation here.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Qantas Grounds A380s
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2010, 07:39:05 AM »
Airliners negotiate a deal to buy an Airbus aircraft and then they negotiate a deal on engines to be fitted on the aircraft. To completely different things. Sure there is a limited choice of engines. Just doesn't make a difference. Airbus does not manufacture the engines, it is NOT an Airbus product.
 If I buy a computer from Dell, and a screen from the home depot or whatever other store that has nothing to do with Dell, one has got to be a big fat idiot if one blames Dell if the screen fails to work. And this is actually the situation here.

I know how airlines order their engines, but the fact that there is a limited choice of engines of course makes a difference.

This isn't you going out and buying a monitor that "has nothing to do with Dell".  This is you going out and buying the monitor that Dell told you to.  They said, "These are the two options you have.  Both monitors are produced by our approved partners and we've tested and certified these monitors, and only these monitors, with the use of our PCs".  If the monitor they tell me to buy fails you can be damned sure I'm pointing a finger at Dell.  Certainly they're not getting most of the blame, but you can be damned sure they're taking some of it.

Sure, the fact that you bought it from someone else mitigates some of the intangible damages, but it absolutely does not absolve Airbus of responsibility.  Airlines don't go out, pick some random engine, and say "Make this work" and stick Airbus with doing the best they could per their demands.  Airbus selects manufacturers they wish to allow to produce engines for their aircraft and then tells airlines what engines they have tested, qualified, and certified to work with their aircraft.  The fact that the purchase is separate is only done for the purposes of legal indemnification it doesn't absolve them of any reputation damage that may occur if there were ever an issue with one of their chosen engine partners.

I spend billions a year of one of the largest companies in the world's money.  I often do so on extremely expensive capital items similar in cost to aircraft.  These goods often require that I source associated items from other sources per the recommendation of the primary manufacturer.  They have qualified this other companies products and I take their word that the product is at least as good a quality individually as their manufactured product will be.  If that sub-component were to fail, I of course have no legal recourse with the manufacturer of the entire assembly, that's precisely why they have me source and contract out the sub-component individually.  But if you think I'm not going to put some blame on the part of the OEM for recommending a poor component and/or supplier and that it won't likely impact my future business decisions, you're fooling yourself.  And you're really fooling yourself if you think the people who ultimately use the parts I source give a flying fart about whether or not the subcomponent that failed was from some manufacturer other than the one whose name is written on the side or some separate party.  They, logically and reasonably, blame the guy that's up front and center without the least regard to the fact that the part that failed was sourced separately from a different supplier.  That's why these manufacturers, and Airbus and Boeing alike, don't just choose engine partners all "willy-nilly", it's a huge deal for them primarily because if they choose one that can't deliver or delivers poor stuff it reflects at least as badly on them as it does the other guy.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 07:50:54 AM by Sigma »

 

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