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Author Topic: weird fleet commonality costs  (Read 1757 times)

Offline Andriy

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weird fleet commonality costs
« on: October 11, 2010, 08:35:31 PM »
Very strange dynamics with my fleet commonality costs, I wonder if anyone could explain or help...

The commonality costs per plane seem to be going up continuously. I had 3 or 4 of 737-200 at start and all maintenance, etc. costs per plane were below $150k. Now I have 9 of 737-200s and while I would expect the cost per plane to go down reflecting economies of scale, the reality is that cost is up to almost $190k per plane. This does not make sense at all - as the more planes of the same type you have, the more synergies you have and the less should be your total servicing costs.
I still thought that maybe I did not remember the numbers right, so I noted yesterday the fleet commonality costs for 4 of my 757-200s: it was $1.35m - and today (real time) its already $1.56m, the costs went up 15% for no obvious reason...

Anyone could help?

Offline oggie84

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 08:40:35 PM »
Considering the 737-200 is an old plane, as time goes by they get more expensive to maintain. Hence why this is reflected in the commonality page. Those aircraft must be at least 18 years old and then some so every month the aircraft ages, maintainence go's up a little more.

If they were brand new though, then yes, the commonality costs would go down with the more you have.

Check your "Fixed maintainence costs". If you decide to add another, see how much this go's up.

Offline Andriy

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 08:43:43 PM »
well... but would it be realistic that cost would be up 20-30% in just a few game month? Also the 757-s... they are not the newest, but its been 1 day (!) - which would be just a month in game time, and cost is up 15% - what would have to happen in real life to make sense of that?

Offline oggie84

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 08:50:51 PM »
Hmm, then i'm not too sure about the amount of increase you've experienced. I'm not the best person when it comes to economics and i tend not to usually read to much into how much each aircraft increases/decreases the commoanlity. I like you, thought the more you had, the better the economies of scale you got with the exception of older aircraft.

Hopefully if Sami reads this then he might be able to add a better insight than me. Or even anyone else out there who understands these things.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 09:02:42 PM »
The commonality costs are not fixed on a per type basis.  There are variable costs as well.


Offline Andriy

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 09:42:33 PM »
right, but there would be both a fixed and a variable components there. Therefore some costs would come with every new plane and some would be more or less fixed and "split" between the planes (like technical crew, spare parts, etc) - and this is where you should get an economy of scale effect.
However there is nothing at all to imply that the more planes you have the higher the cost for every plane - would the costs of one certain spare part become higher just because you have 20 planes rather than 10?

Offline swiftus27

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 09:58:00 AM »
would the costs of one certain spare part become higher just because you have 20 planes rather than 10?

if you have to have more of them on hand at a given time, sure.

Offline Andriy

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 10:15:02 AM »
Imagine I need to have a can of engine oil for maintenance of each aircraft and it costs $100. Now if I have 20 planes and need to buy 20 cans - would I have to pay $120 per each just because I buy more of them? Not at all, most likely I will get a discount and pay say $98 per per each unit...
You have certain fixed costs that are not allocated and not directly linked to # of aircrafts, thus once you get more of planes, the cost are better spread and its cheaper for you to maintain each plane - though of course the total goes up. Say you need a manager of service unit regardless if you have 1 plane or 10 - though in first case 100% of his salary goes into the maintenance costs of your single plane, and in the second case only 10% - thats a basic idea of the economy of scale.
So still no clue whatsoever why the mainetenance cost per plane goes up once you have more aircrafts in your fleet :-[

Offline swiftus27

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 10:20:38 AM »
Imagine I need to have a can of engine oil for maintenance of each aircraft and it costs $100. Now if I have 20 planes and need to buy 20 cans - would I have to pay $120 per each just because I buy more of them? Not at all, most likely I will get a discount and pay say $98 per per each unit...
You have certain fixed costs that are not allocated and not directly linked to # of aircrafts, thus once you get more of planes, the cost are better spread and its cheaper for you to maintain each plane - though of course the total goes up. Say you need a manager of service unit regardless if you have 1 plane or 10 - though in first case 100% of his salary goes into the maintenance costs of your single plane, and in the second case only 10% - thats a basic idea of the economy of scale.
So still no clue whatsoever why the mainetenance cost per plane goes up once you have more aircrafts in your fleet :-[

you are putting WAY too much logic into it.  

dont forget that this has to be increased to deal with people leasing every type of plane in existence.   So, we like to think that you have to cross train all of your techs on every plane.  Therefore, the more planes the more techs...

Offline Sigma

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 02:58:32 PM »
you are putting WAY too much logic into it.  

dont forget that this has to be increased to deal with people leasing every type of plane in existence.   So, we like to think that you have to cross train all of your techs on every plane.  Therefore, the more planes the more techs...

Yes, but again, it shouldn't go up "per plane".

If it took $100K to maintain 1 plane it shouldn't take $300K to maintain 2 planes.  In reality, it should take, say, $150K -- that's only $75K/plane, so less than the cost to maintain 1.

However, your first statement is true -- you can't put too much thought into the figures in AWS.  The numbers are what the numbers are.  Do they make sense?  More often than not, no.  They're averages of averages to begin with and you tack on game design decisions on top of that and who knows what's really gonna happen when you do something.  You just make note of it for future games and go with it.

Does it make sense that all your planes become twice as expensive to maintain when you add a new fleet type?  Nope.  But it's what happens here.  Does it make sense for every base to increase your overhead salary by some 25-30% -- hiring thousands of employees at HQ just because a base was opened?  Of course not.  But in happens here.  For game balance purposes many things happen here that don't necessarily make sense or match reality.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 03:04:01 PM »
Oh wise Sigma.  His wisdom is like pearls falling from the sky.   :)

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 01:52:31 AM »
mixing your fleet up a LITTLE bit is NOT detrimental. Just a BIT more costly. Better to stay common, but it ain't gonna break ya if ya don't (a little).

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 02:44:14 AM »
You should start to see a decrease in the per plane cost after your 10th aircraft. Next time is around 20. The best per plane costs is after 30 aircraft of same type.


1-4 is pretty even. 5-9 is a noticeable increase then it levels off after 10. It's been like that for awhile now.


Talentz

Online JumboShrimp

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 03:01:30 AM »
The best per plane costs is after 30 aircraft of same type.

Same aircraft type or same fleet type?

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 03:57:01 AM »
Fleet group type.



Talentz

Jps

  • Former member
Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 01:43:52 PM »
And, the effect is even more visible, if you operate different aircraft types. I have 1 747-300SR, that costs 400k/month to maintain, and 2 747-400Ds that cost 500k/month together.  Sure, 300 is older than the others, but still quite a difference.

Offline RibeiroR

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Re: weird fleet commonality costs
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2010, 07:25:32 PM »
well, not always apply
some airlines, manage to drag with various fleet types for a long time...
even with a relevant competition, you can have good profits in the AWS  ???

 

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