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Author Topic: What is the point of buying new planes?  (Read 6983 times)

Offline Marksw76

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What is the point of buying new planes?
« on: October 07, 2010, 08:56:58 PM »
I'm wondering if there is any point in operating new planes.

I recently leased four brand new 737 700s to replace perfectly good middle aged 300 series 737s and to be honest its probably the worst decision I have made in this game.

I'm tied into these things for three years, they cost three times more than the older planes, have the same capacity yet there is actually no benefit in operating newer planes, other than slightly lower average fleet age and cheaper maintenance.

They make no difference to CI, in fact I would have rather have spent the money on marketing

So now I'm having to think pretty quickly what to do with these things, I'm tempted to swallow $24m to get rid of them and lease back some 10 year old 737 300s at least then it will sort things quickly....

Surely something could be added to this sim to 'reward' players that invest in newer aircraft, other wise a top tip for everyone is just keep renewing a second hand fleet keeping the average aircraft age to around 8 years
you may as well......

Offline Sigma

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2010, 09:36:30 PM »
There's a reason why major airlines the world over are full of old planes.  You don't buy a new plane to replace one that's still perfectly functional.  You replace old planes, not ones that are still serviceable and profitable.

As for your suggestion -- You can't keep renewing planes and keep your average age low.  The Used market is a closed-loop in this game, there are no planes created from nothing with the sole exception of the relative few that are there when the game starts.  From there the Used market relies on people buying new planes and those eventually finding their way onto the Used market (often through bankruptcies but also people who replace fairly early on).  If everyone just bought second-hand aircraft, there would very soon be none left to buy (as anyone who starts a large game early on can tell you).
But as long as there are Used planes to buy in good shape, of course buy those.  I'm buying a lot of Used A300s in the Alliance Challenge world right now because the game only has 8 years left.  Buying a new plane for $130M makes no sense if I can buy one that's 8-10 years old for $80M.  I save $50M on every plane I buy and since they won't get too old (over 20) before the end of the game, there's no reason to buy a brand new one.

Offline Marksw76

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2010, 10:51:09 PM »
Thanks for your reply Sigma

The point I'm making is that currently (in 2005) you could have an airline with twenty 737 200Adv's with an average fleet age of 24+ years old making tons more money than an airline with twenty 737 700's with an average fleet age of just 1 year.

Yes, eventually in a few years the 737 200's are going to be getting 'too old to fly' and the the C Checks are going to be astronomically expensive but in which case it would make perfectly good business sense to just replace these with another twenty twelve year old second hand 737 300s rather than going an ordering 20 737 700s.

There is no incentive in the game to fly new planes other than slightly cheaper maintance (offset by massively inflated leasing costs), arguably better fuel economy and quicker flying times but thats it.

My advice to anyone playing this sim is to feed off the other airlines and buy old crates and run them until they literally fall from the sky. As long as you invest in marketing, A/B/C/D checks and staff, you're laughing all the way to the bank. Sure, you will have more cancellations due to 'technical problems' but that won't matter since CI is mainly calculated on marketing. It also seems to me that you can still grab a greater market share flying an old plane, than a competitior flying a brand new NG 737 depending on your timetable.....










Offline mtnlion

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 06:03:40 AM »
But hey if you have too much money it gets boring if you don't renew your fleet! There's no point just sit and wait when you have 3 billion $ in cash and you already own all of you planes.

Offline PiaDijkstra

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 08:46:27 AM »
Talking about a real problems there!

I did the same, I replaced my perfectly working 737-400 for the Next Gen brand new from factory. Lead time was nearly 2 years and there were non in the used-marked then. I also leased them and my profit went to a place were the sun never shines!

If you in a position you need to work hard for a small profit, stick to the oldies!

Offline Marksw76

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 08:40:07 PM »
But hey if you have too much money it gets boring if you don't renew your fleet! There's no point just sit and wait when you have 3 billion $ in cash and you already own all of you planes.

I think the only reason players with larger fleets never get bitten in the ass with these tempting new planes, is because they are constantly buying new planes and therefore paying leases in advance. This means they always have a plane 'in hand' that covers the true cost of the plane leased previously (yep complicated but hopefully you know what i mean :))

I would challenge any airline to buy 30 new 737 800s at once, buy no more aircraft, then wait till the honeymoon is over and the leases kick in and i guarantee that the airline would be gone within a few months....

My '700s average 90 - 95% full yet make little or no money, complete waste of time!





Offline mtnlion

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 09:35:43 AM »
But why lease when you can buy directly? If you have billions of dollars you don't want to pay leases. In this game world I have bought almost all of my planes directly. Besides when you buy directly you get a nice discount.  :)

Offline schro

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Re: What is the point of buying new planes?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2010, 03:22:37 AM »

I would challenge any airline to buy 30 new 737 800s at once, buy no more aircraft, then wait till the honeymoon is over and the leases kick in and i guarantee that the airline would be gone within a few months....

My '700s average 90 - 95% full yet make little or no money, complete waste of time!


The 700's usually are a waste of time because the trip cost of flying them is about the same as the 800 and 900.  Thus, unless you're trying to save 5-10M on the purchase or derived lease rate, the 700's are usually poor choices since the bigger variants carry more passengers for the same fuel burn.  The only advantage for the 700's is field performance and range, but if you're flying 100-120pax at a time more than 2000 miles, you're not going to make any money.

I would be more than happy to take you up on yoru challenge and defeat it, but I just don't have the time these days...

 

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