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Author Topic: Is there something I should know about CDG?...  (Read 3843 times)

L1011fan

  • Former member
Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« on: September 25, 2010, 06:10:56 PM »
Seems kind of, um, vacant. :-\

Offline Sigma

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 07:21:44 PM »
A lot of players are BKing.  In CDG it was Roissy that BKd a few days ago -- though I think it wasn't due to performance they just quit out.

And since no one else can start a base there, the only way to get in there is to startover.  And anyone who is actually planning on starting over right now probably isn't even bother to look at CDG thinking it wouldn't be worthwhile.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 07:27:23 PM »
A lot of players are BKing.  In CDG it was Roissy that BKd a few days ago -- though I think it wasn't due to performance they just quit out.

And since no one else can start a base there, the only way to get in there is to startover.  And anyone who is actually planning on starting over right now probably isn't even bother to look at CDG thinking it wouldn't be worthwhile.

Im about out of this game.  Got the Bankruptcy warning. 

This challenge was really difficult.

Online [ATA] Sunbao

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    • FmFreaks
Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 09:48:59 PM »
A lot of players are BKing.  In CDG it was Roissy that BKd a few days ago -- though I think it wasn't due to performance they just quit out.

And since no one else can start a base there, the only way to get in there is to startover.  And anyone who is actually planning on starting over right now probably isn't even bother to look at CDG thinking it wouldn't be worthwhile.

Yeah i only left cdg and the game because of it was all to easy owned half my fleet and earned around 50 mill a week.
Also my alliance was hopless the players just quit etc. So decided to stop playing also.

It was my first game from the start and i was just making money all the time in cdg.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 09:55:17 PM »
Im about out of this game.  Got the Bankruptcy warning.  

This challenge was really difficult.

It was exceptionally easy until fuel got up high.  Just like way back in the North America challenge when that game got emptied out quick, the same thing happened this time too -- fuel was dirt-cheap to start then spiked 300% in a matter of weeks.  Except this time fuel was cheap for an even longer period of time so people were even more comfortable with it.  Airlines were structured around cheap fuel, had the plane orders in for too many fleets or, at the least, too many planes, too many bases, and were keeping little cash in the bank.  When times got rough everyone started falling like rain.  On one hand that makes for a difficult game, and a more realistic one as well, and I greatly approve of that.  On the other hand, when the difficulty ramps up like that, you catch a lot of people off-guard.  And that's realistic but not very fun for many people.

One other big problem was that the fuel spiked occurred right around the time many larger airlines were opening their 3rd bases.  With the massive uncommunicated costs of opening additional bases, most of those operations were likely doomed even if fuel didn't get that high.  For example, for me to open an additional base, will cost me $20M/week, clearly a staggering figure that isn't mentioned anywhere on any screen.  And obviously there are virtually no airports that will net me that level of return, so it's really pointless for me to try to open additional bases.  But few people realize the true costs of opening a new base.  And you see that most of the airlines that are failing are those that have 2 or 3 additional bases and simply can't support the overhead with high fuel costs as well.

« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 09:57:43 PM by Sigma »

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 02:48:01 AM »
I guess it was just vacant from my hub at LBA. Surprised though! ;D

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 03:11:59 AM »
It was exceptionally easy until fuel got up high.  Just like way back in the North America challenge when that game got emptied out quick, the same thing happened this time too -- fuel was dirt-cheap to start then spiked 300% in a matter of weeks.  Except this time fuel was cheap for an even longer period of time so people were even more comfortable with it.  Airlines were structured around cheap fuel, had the plane orders in for too many fleets or, at the least, too many planes, too many bases, and were keeping little cash in the bank.  When times got rough everyone started falling like rain.  On one hand that makes for a difficult game, and a more realistic one as well, and I greatly approve of that.  On the other hand, when the difficulty ramps up like that, you catch a lot of people off-guard.  And that's realistic but not very fun for many people.

One other big problem was that the fuel spiked occurred right around the time many larger airlines were opening their 3rd bases.  With the massive uncommunicated costs of opening additional bases, most of those operations were likely doomed even if fuel didn't get that high.  For example, for me to open an additional base, will cost me $20M/week, clearly a staggering figure that isn't mentioned anywhere on any screen.  And obviously there are virtually no airports that will net me that level of return, so it's really pointless for me to try to open additional bases.  But few people realize the true costs of opening a new base.  And you see that most of the airlines that are failing are those that have 2 or 3 additional bases and simply can't support the overhead with high fuel costs as well.




3 fleet types.  All new planes.  No long haul.  Leading in two airports.  75% LFs.  Come on.  What does one need to survive?   Well, if gas keeps coming down, maybe my bk warning will go away.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 04:01:13 AM »

3 fleet types.  All new planes.  No long haul.  Leading in two airports.  75% LFs.  Come on.  What does one need to survive?   Well, if gas keeps coming down, maybe my bk warning will go away.

You've got just 115 planes, of which half are tiny little Saabs, and none have more than about 150 seats.  You're really operating fairly few seats to cover a pretty large infrastructure, basically operating as almost a regional airline.  In that case 75%LF ain't that impressive and, honestly, your current situation is pretty realistic for what real airlines experience that normally operating in the mid-70s for LF and just how tight margins are and how things can go south quickly when fuel spikes.  I operate at 85% and with these fuel prices I'm down to just 10% margins.  Yank off 10% of my LF and I'd be in trouble too.

And with so few seats you're unlikely to really be paying for that 2nd base of yours.  The ironic thing is that with the huge overhead salary increase that one takes with additonal bases, you need to fly big planes and move a LOT of pax to really justify the expense, but additional bases are rarely (unless one is lucky) in airports that allow this sort of economy of scale.  Their basically wastes of money, good for nothing more than chasing more pax if you're dead-set on that, they are far more likely to cost you more money than you'll ever make on them.  The best you can hope is achieve enough pax throughput to get your margins back to what they were prior to expanding into the new base, they'll almost never make you more profitable in the long-run.

Offline Seattle

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 05:04:18 PM »
Hubs with little competition also help ;)
Founder of the Star Alliance!

Offline RushmoreAir

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 02:51:20 AM »
I think that having 2 bases (HQ+Hub) is very useful, especially since my HQ is extremely slot-limited.

Also, I don't know what strategies you guys use, but last week, I had 67% LF, and 12 of my 89 planes were sitting around doing nothing.  I lease ALL of my aircraft, and all but 5 I got new on long-term leases. 

And I made $400k last week, even with fuel prices as they are.

I don't get how all these biggies (swiftus, etc) are falling.

Offline CVACEO

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2010, 03:01:52 PM »
I think that having 2 bases (HQ+Hub) is very useful, especially since my HQ is extremely slot-limited.

Also, I don't know what strategies you guys use, but last week, I had 67% LF, and 12 of my 89 planes were sitting around doing nothing.  I lease ALL of my aircraft, and all but 5 I got new on long-term leases. 

And I made $400k last week, even with fuel prices as they are.

I don't get how all these biggies (swiftus, etc) are falling.

If you are only making $400k in profits with a fleet of 99 a/c then you have HUGE problems.  Good luck with that.

Offline RushmoreAir

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 03:09:29 PM »
If you are only making $400k in profits with a fleet of 99 a/c then you have HUGE problems.  Good luck with that.

With $500 fuel prices. Usually I make 6mil per week.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 04:43:27 PM »
I actually survived the crisis, barely.

Because I have no long haul, I dont pull in the insane profits.  This is why I asked for a change to LH income as it is unbalanced. 

My competition (mainly in one alliance) uses F100s to compete because they know frequency is king.

Offline JonnyAngel

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 02:07:18 PM »
But Sigma, there must be something useful about second bases right? How did you figure out that cost?

Sami, if you're reading, can you shed some light??

Offline Sigma

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Re: Is there something I should know about CDG?...
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 10:00:26 PM »
But Sigma, there must be something useful about second bases right? How did you figure out that cost?

Sami, if you're reading, can you shed some light??

Read this thread:

http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,22590.0.html

Sami's already mentioned why it's done this way -- and that's to put a more realistic cost structure in place for larger airlines (since margins are so huge in AWS).  Which is a great thing to do which I fully support.  The downside is that the people it hurts most are people who can't run a really profitable operation.  If your margins are just 15-20%, opening another base will kill you.

 

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