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Author Topic: Feedback for Alliance Challenge  (Read 5959 times)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« on: September 18, 2010, 07:19:06 PM »
As Talentz' idea come to my ears I was very excited. A very hard scenario, using all skill to fight, change strategies to survive and have a lot of fun besides of the "join, rule, leave"-scenarios.

I can remember a lot of discussions and thoughts - four alliances with 25 members per? Will the bases be told by administration? How will rules be adjusted?


But things often aren't this great as expected;
The game world is very curious. In Europe you have very short distances, the distances in North America are much further. Also many airports have special demand to not incluced continents. The lack of these continents also makes a second long-haul aircraft in most cases unnecessary.

Everybody could choose his base - nobody was forced to fight for the biggest and most prestige airports.

There are still normal rules in this game. No oversupply. No alliance targeting. And in every Alliance are people who will run whiningly to sami and tell how very bad some others will violate this rules. Also slot hogging and other (maybe unfair) strategys are forbidden, making the game super easy. I think it's harder to steal some candy from a blind kindergarden kid.

The fuel prices are low. Even at the start of a game like Alliance Challenge I expected very high fuel prices, I was excited to change my strategy at some point because of the high prices and it will keep everybody being involved. Instead of this the prices dropped.

I also expected very very high loan costs. But the costs where cheap and I took out the biggest loan in my whole AWS life (yeah, it isn't very long :D).

The scoring system seems also to be "not perfect". Small airlines in the middle of nowhere have high load factors, high punctuallity and high profit margins - an airline in a competitive market can't reach such high numbers.

At the end I expected the best players from every alliance. With experience. Or even with knowing the main basics in AWS. I know from different people and also other alliances it's not. I don't know exactly why people join the game, don't understand it and at the next step join Alliance Challenge. But I even more don't understand why Alliances pick this people instead playing with less. Sami forbid newbie bashing in Beginners World, but Alliance Challenge was at the time I was part in nothing else on many airports.


And now to some personal feedback;
I got over 45% market share in less time, thanks to my wonderful strong competition, even with trying a strategy I haven't used before. I really expected more fighting and less running away. I was inactive only the first week and one day I thought I have time to come back, but if I think now over all things happens this scenario was for me too easy and made too less fun in much directions. I know there is always some point in a game when one loses interest, but after one or two weeks is very fast and I think this shows how much difference is between the expected difficult and the one that is real.

So yeah, this is also some "whining" to sami. Where's the sense for an Alliance Challenge if an inactive airline with over 25% of aircraft completely without schedules makes much money for weeks? If I hadn't wrote a PM to my competition to crush the airline I'm sure it would exist for the whole month and maybe the next.


However, have fun to those who have. I'm jealous and wish I had had much fun too. And shame on you who think the same as I do but keep this for themselves. Whining in skype, icq and PM will not change anything.


PS: I don't expect any replys on this, but if, please remember I'm no polite native English speaker, so it's no offense, yeah? It was a necessity for me to write this down, not to start a discussion, it's to give some feedback and emtpy my soul or whatever you will call it  :)

Online [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2010, 07:35:11 PM »
+1

Offline Sami

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2010, 09:19:06 PM »
The scoring system seems also to be "not perfect". Small airlines in the middle of nowhere have high load factors, high punctuallity and high profit margins - an airline in a competitive market can't reach such high numbers.

Well airlines in competitive areas can reach higher pax counts etc, and the score is NOT "biggest is best", but rather a combination of various factors so that small and large airlines can reach top spots in various areas of the score....

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2010, 09:26:21 PM »
I know. But one thing we discussed was the administration will select 25 airports and every alliance can send one member to each airport. Under this point of view every airline has the same advantages and disadvantages in every detail of scoring system.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2010, 09:52:08 PM »
It's a decent game, the only "problem" is that is absolutely no different than any other one.  The only difference between this game and any other is that you have to be in an Alliance to be in the game-world, so there's no non-alliance players in the mix, but that means absolutely nothing anyway.

There's not only no additional "challenge", there's actually less challenge than probably any other world I've ever played.  The same care-bear competition rules are in place coupled with fewer players (even if it was full) means even less competition than usual.  Taken with fuel prices that are, hands-down, the lowest of any world I've ever played in, and you have a world that's better-suited as a Beginner's World than a "Challenge" one.

Online [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2010, 10:24:25 PM »
Yeah this alliance challenge world is unfortunatley a big disaster. It's just so easy, and so few players.

Offline Sami

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2010, 10:30:07 PM »
Original proposal was two 25 player alliances and whole world, and I got whining for putting only EU and NA and more players. So I guess nothing is right then.. :p

And alliance challenge was never meant to be anything different than regular world with preselected alliances/players/airports thus creating more controlled startup environment. Dunno what some were expecting?

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2010, 10:43:02 PM »
I think I explained what many of the better players expected.

This is no offense to you, sami, you must deal with every players and not only a hand full, so I can understand why the world is like it is.

Also I wouldn't start a big discussion like I said, it was only my personal feedback in one part and my experience in the second part.

Online [ATA] Sunbao

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2010, 10:50:52 PM »
No matter what not it has been tried and in the future it can hopefully be the ground stone of how future games like this not shall bee.
We only learn when whe try things out and see what happens.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2010, 11:22:08 PM »

And now to some personal feedback;
I got over 45% market share in less time, thanks to my wonderful strong competition, even with trying a strategy I haven't used before. I really expected more fighting and less running away. I was inactive only the first week and one day I thought I have time to come back, but if I think now over all things happens this scenario was for me too easy and made too less fun in much directions. I know there is always some point in a game when one loses interest, but after one or two weeks is very fast and I think this shows how much difference is between the expected difficult and the one that is real.

Eh, as your competition I'd just like to say you weren't the only one who tried something new this game.  What I tried just happened to explode in my face  :laugh:  Normally, I feel I'm much tougher competition than I was in year two of this game.  I was running away on some routes 'cause I couldn't afford the fight while cleaning up the mess I made.  Sorry you haven't been having fun  :(, I sure have been while catching up to you  ;D

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2010, 11:25:58 PM »
This mostly wasn't aimed at you  ;)

Offline Frogiton

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2010, 11:36:22 PM »
I think the 2 continent thing kind of killed it. Like SFO for example, the only reason you'd want to base there is for the Asian market.
No replacement for displacement

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2010, 11:38:49 PM »
For sure there is no single thing reasonable for it. It's the mass.

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2010, 11:53:09 PM »
This mostly wasn't aimed at you  ;)

I guessed it wasn't mostly.  Just 'fessing up as to why I left your unattended airline alone for so long  :laugh:.  I barely made it through 1997 and it took a bit to relight the growth engine.  Wanted to make sure it was running smoothly before taking on the risk.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2010, 12:30:40 AM »
Yeah, I noticed these DC-9 are going to make you cry, but I'm nobody who's going after others and also the rules forbid to go on your routes  ;D

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2010, 12:41:35 AM »
who whined? I'll talk them out of it. ;D Just kidding, but still. Why?!? EU and NA is stupid. I've NEVER played in Europe before. never. The fact that it's almost a 2 to 1 ratio in terms of airlines to airports. Surviving after the start becomes a race of who STAYS profitable and becomes the most streamlined. :P I hate those kinds of games and it's a shame it did "fail" as it did. :( I would be 100% in if you opened up the whole world, but that would mean either a new game world or restarting the current one. :P

Cheers,
ICEcold

Offline PH1517

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2010, 01:36:23 AM »
Well, this is the first of its kind in terms of games (that I know of)  and I m sure our AWS people are listening and will refine the game as they always do.  I think this game whould have been a good opportunity to remove or at least increase the number of bases we can open, same thing for number of aircrafts allowed at bases.  I mean understand the restrictions are there to allow all players to have a chance but we re supposed to be the best, right ?  ;)  All in all, a happy camper here and looking forward for the next game already.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2010, 02:36:57 AM by PH1517 »

Offline [ATA] - lilius

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Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2010, 01:51:40 AM »
This mostly wasn't aimed at you  ;)

hhmm maybe to me?  :laugh:

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2010, 03:38:25 AM »
Hmm... yeah. Was a bit different then I thought :D


Original proposal was two 25 player alliances and whole world, and I got whining for putting only EU and NA and more players. So I guess nothing is right then.. :p

And alliance challenge was never meant to be anything different than regular world with preselected alliances/players/airports thus creating more controlled startup environment. Dunno what some were expecting?

That is mostly correct except what I figured we would do is have bases pre-assigned between the two alliances. Thus, having competition for everyone. Even if we had only N. America or Euroland wide open, 25 cities would be preselected and everyone would have someone to play against.
 
Maybe we can reduce Alliance Challenge down to 1 continent and left the top 20 base restriction to allow more bloodshed? Something to consider moving forward.

~ I will rant that we need some sort of bankruptcy rule were your not allowed unlimited chances to "get it right". Both to undo some of the negative alliance scores AND prevent players from trying and trying till they get it right... (I think the person I'm talking about is smiling at this as my airline heads towards BK once again)

I think if we can pre-assign bases and limit BK's, things would be a bit more interesting.


Overall though, I am happy with the overall turnout (maybe not my Alliance's...). There's room for improvement for sure and I think we will slowly see the changes as time goes on.


I want to thank you Sami for making it happen and everyone else for turning out to play. Such a big idea always commands some unexpected turn of events, but that's not to say this wasn't a success.

I think it was.



Talentz

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Feedback for Alliance Challenge
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2010, 04:18:11 AM »
Whole world scenario would be better than this. There are some difficulties already mentioned here. This game is easy when you start it right away and wait for a whole day by lurking good used planes... But if you guys move to another airport, as I did from MAD to DFW - just for wanting to play in US, the game and set is different. The start is the one that really matters.
That is good anyway, that new players thinks this is a easy game and gains 1 000 000 000 cash when game process is going just under 20%.

"My era.. is finally over. The beta era has ended. It clearly shows it in this game. Where's we dominated airlines and airports... now were the ones getting pushed around. Long the days of real blood shed and competition, now, we have rules and coding in place that even prevent us from doing such.

Not to mention the nature of the game has changed. Things just don't work like they use too. The newer players pick up the simplicity of AWS and just run with it."

 Yes - Albert - this is your own text and I couldn´t say it better. That´s why I copy pasted it.

I have two options. To retire and stop playing AirwaySim or change my thinking and whining in this game  :)
Kim.

 

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