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Author Topic: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger  (Read 2629 times)

Offline swiftus27

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Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« on: September 17, 2010, 05:16:33 PM »
Hubs

United is bringing six hubs to the marriage: Chicago, Denver, Washington Dulles, San Francisco, Los Angeles International and Tokyo Narita. Continental has four: Houston, Newark, Cleveland and Guam. There's been concern that Cleveland will shrink or be eliminated. United and Continental this week agreed to continue operating a Cleveland hub that is at least 90% of the current hub's size for the next two years, and to pay Cleveland a $20 million penalty if it closes the hub within five years.   (OH PLEASE DONT CLOSE, OH PLEASE DONT CLOSE... THIS IS MY HOME TOWN!!!)

Planes

This is an area the new airline will have to work out. Both carriers currently fly Boeing aircraft on international routes. But Continental sticks with Boeing 737s and 757s on its domestic routes, while United flies a mix of Boeing 757s and Airbus A320s. Flying both 737s and A320s on similar domestic routes would require maintaining two sets of pilots, maintenance programs, spare parts and training programs. And 737s and A320s don't have the same number of seats. United's fleet of 747s and 767s are aging and will need to be replaced soon. Continental and United have orders for the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner, but United also has placed orders for the 787's competitor, the Airbus A350. 

On top of resolving the compatibility issue, the new United likely will need more wide-body jets to avoid getting left behind in the international travel arena.


Could you imagine combining fleets in this game????  OMG!!!

Offline RushmoreAir

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, 05:26:05 PM »
I actually can't wait for the UA-CO merger. I'm still fuming over the NW-DL "merger", though.  My hometown was left with only 4 airlines.  Frontier, Allegiant, United, & Delta.  Frontier has now pulled out, Allegiant only provides 3-weekly service.  So I'm stuck with UA or DL.  My family had collectively amassed like 400,000 NW miles at the merger.  After the merger, we learned one thing:  DLs FF program sucks.  It'll be a miracle if we use up those miles.

But yeah, the UA-CO merger will be nice.  We'll have increased options, and UA just rocks, even though they're expensive.

takasito

  • Former member
Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2010, 04:38:36 AM »
My family had collectively amassed like 400,000 NW miles at the merger.  After the merger, we learned one thing:  DLs FF program sucks.  It'll be a miracle if we use up those miles.

So true that there was a shocking difference between the Worldperks and the Skymiles. I used skymiles on shopping.

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2010, 05:06:47 AM »
Could you imagine combining fleets in this game????  OMG!!!

I would love that...minus the scheduling....:P rescheduling 75 A320s onto the rotations of 75 B737s will require a small miracle to make me want to do that. ;D Placing those juicy orders for new replacement aircraft would be something I would look forward to though. :D

Cheers,
ICEcold

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2010, 01:52:05 PM »
I would love that...minus the scheduling....:P rescheduling 75 A320s onto the rotations of 75 B737s will require a small miracle to make me want to do that. ;D Placing those juicy orders for new replacement aircraft would be something I would look forward to though. :D

Cheers,
ICEcold

A320s and 737s are all ~70 minute turn times.

Online schro

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2010, 02:59:39 PM »
In the real world, once you hit a critical mass of about 50 planes per type, there's not really much of a difference from a total cost perspective of having a mixed fleet with 75 A320's and 75 737s.  This is especially true if you segment where the planes are flying - i.e. some hubs will be all 737 and others all A320 for that size aircraft, and that would be selected based on the intented mission. Spare parts would only need to be kept where they are flying - each hub will be stocked for the type that frequents it and at the end of the day, its the same inventory level for parts.

A few examples (which are easy to do for airlines that are the only operator of the type):
Delta's M88's are mostly out of ATL, M90's are mostly out of MSP and D94/95s out of DTW
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/MD88
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/MD90
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/DC94
http://flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/DC95


If you look at AAmerican, you'll see that their MD 81/82/83's are largely DFW based and the 738's are seen more in MIA and ORD.
http://flightaware.com/live/aircraft_type.rvt?type=MD82
http://flightaware.com/live/aircraft_type.rvt?type=MD83

For example, basing A320's at IAD or EWR isn't that great of an idea since A320's usually have trouble in the winter against the headwinds when making transcon flights - they'd be more suitable for a mid-continent hub.

UAL made the combined A350/B787 order to replace its 747 and 767 fleets. They've said this is a direct replacement and the options give them well, options for growth should they choose.  With that being set, the next big order for UAL (well, the unmerged UAL) would have been something to replace the 757's and possibly the rest of the narrowbody fleet.


ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2010, 03:31:08 PM »
A320s and 737s are all ~70 minute turn times.

yes, but 75 of them with possibly more than one route on each? :'( it would take a day to complete that. ;)

Cheers,
ICEcold

Offline Frogiton

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2010, 11:40:32 PM »
As long as there's red and blue planes in the sky with the words "Southwest Airlines", I'm good.   :laugh:
No replacement for displacement

Offline lunchbox

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2010, 02:07:22 AM »
As long as there's red and blue planes in the sky with the words "Southwest Airlines", I'm good.   :laugh:


 :laugh: Very true, although my city Houston stands the best chance in this merger.

 It will take some getting used to saying United instead of Continental though :(

twistedraisin

  • Former member
Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2010, 02:43:26 PM »
If you look at AAmerican, you'll see that their MD 81/82/83's are largely DFW based and the 738's are seen more in MIA and ORD.
http://flightaware.com/live/aircraft_type.rvt?type=MD82
http://flightaware.com/live/aircraft_type.rvt?type=MD83

As an aside, once American gave up on their "more room in coach" initiative, these things suck. MD8Xs are such horrid things to fly in, and as a passenger in one, at one time, 4-6 times a month, I dreaded being stuck in coach. Thank goodness they're being phased out for more 738s. And AE is starting to replace their ER4s with CR7s! Makes me happy. The planes I least like to fly in on the airline I fly the most are going away!

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2010, 03:19:05 PM »
I thought only some if the md8x were being phased out.  Last I heard they were planning on flying at least some of them until whatever replaces the 737 comes along.

twistedraisin

  • Former member
Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2010, 03:47:22 PM »
I thought only some if the md8x were being phased out.  Last I heard they were planning on flying at least some of them until whatever replaces the 737 comes along.

They are, but a lot of the routes I used to fly on DFW-IAD, DFW-DCA, DFW-ORD are where those transitions are occurring. Although I ended up on a CR7 from ORD-DCA a couple of weeks ago, nice change, that, from being in those cramped little ER4s. Also found out that they've swapped out two of the ER4 flights from MKE-DFW with CR7s that have a business class section. Finally business class on regional routes!

Interesting too, and I just got an email about this, the Admiral's Clubs are going to be offering complimentary Beer/Wine/Well drinks as of Oct 1.

Online schro

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2010, 10:07:25 PM »
As an aside, once American gave up on their "more room in coach" initiative, these things suck. MD8Xs are such horrid things to fly in, and as a passenger in one, at one time, 4-6 times a month, I dreaded being stuck in coach. Thank goodness they're being phased out for more 738s. And AE is starting to replace their ER4s with CR7s! Makes me happy. The planes I least like to fly in on the airline I fly the most are going away!


Perhaps the interior configuration of AA's Mad Dogs is less than desirable, but I did dozens of flights on Delta's MD-88's last year (same plane, different avionics and sometimes engines - heck, Delta's first few 88's were delivered as 82's).  Based on that, I was pretty pleased with their comfort and enjoyed the very low chance of getting a middle seat. Being upgraded to the front of the bus was a great experience too, as its so danged quiet up there. 

AA has a bit of a problem with the scope clauses in their mainline pilot contract. They dont' have a plane sized between the CR7 and the MD-80s which makes it difficult to match the right plane to the right route.  Recently they were allowed to increase the number of allowed CR7's through more pilot negotiations, which is why you see AE adding them to the fleet.

I thought only some if the md8x were being phased out.  Last I heard they were planning on flying at least some of them until whatever replaces the 737 comes along.

From an original fleet of 350+ MD-80's, AA has replaced a number 1 for 1 with 738's though they're down to about 250 MD-80's now and are expected to hold steady for the next few years other than the occasional cycle-out plane. Fun fact: Some of AA's MD-80's are newer than their 738's.

I would expect the MD-80's to be around until the next generation 737 or A320 comes along (or until the CS500 is launched).


Offline Brockster

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2010, 06:09:19 AM »
From an original fleet of 350+ MD-80's, AA has replaced a number 1 for 1 with 738's though they're down to about 250 MD-80's now and are expected to hold steady for the next few years other than the occasional cycle-out plane.

I thought it was at about 1:2 or 1:3.

I love the Mad Dogs.. 2-3 is very comfortable and nothing beats the roaring sound of the engines when seated towards the back of the plane.  :D

Online schro

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2010, 01:23:41 PM »
I thought it was at about 1:2 or 1:3.

I love the Mad Dogs.. 2-3 is very comfortable and nothing beats the roaring sound of the engines when seated towards the back of the plane.  :D

There's only about a 10-15 pax difference between the MD80's and 738s, so they're pretty much direct replacements in my mind.

AA already got a significant capacity reduction through retiring their A300's last year and having to backfill them with 757/767s from elsewhere in the fleet.

Offline Brockster

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Re: Interesting Stuff about United Continental Merger
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2010, 03:45:30 PM »
Ahh, I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to the replacement rate of the MDs compared to the 738s.

 

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