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Author Topic: DC8 vs 707  (Read 8906 times)

THI

  • Former member
DC8 vs 707
« on: August 31, 2010, 06:26:57 AM »
Hi,

i would be interested, what you think about the both a/c.

here are the stats:
Boeing 707-120       6      4      2      0      13.2y
Boeing 707-120B    105    47    6    0    10.7y
Boeing 707-220    11    6    0    0    13.2y
Boeing 707-320    1    3    0    0    13.5y
Boeing 707-320B    115    48    9    8    4.8y
Boeing 707-320B Adv.    129    25    5    0    5.7y
Boeing 707-320C    399    53    5    70    3.9y
Boeing 707-420    17    10    1    0    13.2y
Boeing 720       3      1      0      0      12.3y
Boeing 720B    135    61    9    0    11.7y

Douglas DC-8-10       0      3      1      0      -
Douglas DC-8-20    44    25    1    0    11.9y
Douglas DC-8-31    5    2    0    0    13.5y
Douglas DC-8-32    3    1    0    0    13.3y
Douglas DC-8-33    4    1    1    0    12.6y
Douglas DC-8-41    26    5    1    0    11.7y
Douglas DC-8-42    34    13    2    0    12.1y
Douglas DC-8-43    37    11    2    0    11.2y
Douglas DC-8-51    41    9    2    0    10.7y
Douglas DC-8-52    55    6    2    0    11.4y
Douglas DC-8-53    57    9    0    0    11.6y
Douglas DC-8-55    53    1    0    9    5.2y
Douglas DC-8-61    183    15    6    0    6.6y
Douglas DC-8-62    334    15    7    145    3.6y
Douglas DC-8-63    503    24    1    172    3.1y


real statistics:
      707-120    707-220    720    707-320    707-420     military all
orders:    141    5           154    580             37            93       1010
deliveries:    141    5           154    580             37            93       1010

douglas all: 556

notes (wikipedia about dc8):
By 2002, of the 1032 707s and 720s manufactured for commercial use, just 80 remained in service though many of those 707s were converted for USAF  use, either in service or for spare parts. Of the 556 DC-8s made, around 200 were still in commercial service in 2002, including about 25 50-Series, 82 of the stretched 60-Series, and 96 out of the 110 re-engined 70-Series. Most of the surviving DC-8s are now used as freighters. As of May 2009, 97 DC-8s were in service following UPS's decision to retire their remaining fleet of 44.


resume:
in AWS it is the other way: douglas is dominating the market and not like in real life boeing does (or did in the jet age).....

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 07:35:26 AM »
The main problem Douglas had in real world was the bad marketing and no discounts or leasing options.

These problems don't occur in AWS.

Choosing B707 or DC-8 depends on your base and future plans. If you are based at Newark the B707 is fine for you, if you are based at Tokyo or Los Angeles, the lower range makes it hard to use. DC-8 also have the advantage of the Super Sixties, which makes the decision which type to take in the mid and end '60s very easy.

At the start of Jet Age it was easily possible to see who was long-time strategys and who not because of this  ;)

Advantages of B707 are clearly the shorter runway requirements, but due to the lack of an economical and a long-range version (B707-420 was only there for 24 hours in JA2), it's limited usable.


(Biggest real world operator was Delta with something around 130 if I remember correctly)

Offline schro

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 03:30:58 AM »
I don't see how whats happening in the jet age is different than actual history. Airlines have selected the plane that will be more economically viable to fly for longer.... DL flew their DC-8's through 1989 whereas the last 707 in the US was flown by TWA in 1983...

THI

  • Former member
Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 08:40:40 AM »
looooooool @schro ??
you should check the stats  ;D

in real about 2x more boeing 707/720 were sold than DC8...

and you should read the comment of curse. in real, douglas have had problems with marketing.....

Offline swiftus27

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 03:26:27 PM »
dc8
*cough cough*

though more DC8s may have flown longer, most of those were re-engined series 70s.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:29:04 PM by swiftus27 »

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 05:56:06 PM »
King Airways - bringing pollution to a city near you!  ;D

Edit:
Replaced the first DC-8-20 with B727-200Adv. 1973  :)

Offline ArcherII

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 05:59:45 PM »
Most of the 707 are Tankers or AWACS today. While DC8s are more cargo-prone. I don't know for certain if there are more Douglas than 07s flying as of today.

I mean, USAF have quite a bunch.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 06:04:04 PM »
KC-135 series used by USAF is no B707.

B707 and KC-135 are based on the same type, Boeing 367.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 08:07:49 PM by Curse »

THI

  • Former member
Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 06:22:29 PM »
@archerII
i can answer this:
there are more dc8 flying.

before sep.11 they have had a great idea.
they wanted to restore old 707 and put there new engines on them.
but after that f***ing attack, they stopped this plans.
there were hundreds of 707's stored and now craped....

the dc8 has some hushkits how i know.
so they are allowed to fly otherwise, the engines would be too loud......


Offline swiftus27

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 06:30:46 PM »
THI, the DC8 60s werent hush kitted. The engines were simply replaced and in a new housing. 

I'd love to have a 707 refit in this game or maybe an option to refit.... I've asked before but it was shot down.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 07:02:59 PM »
KC-135 sereis used by USAF is no B707.

B707 and KC-135 are based on the same type, Boeing 367.

Yeah....got me on that one :-\

THI

  • Former member
Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 10:27:33 PM »
it is a good idea swiftus.
we have to speak with sami. it would be a great idea for the new air travel boom world.
an option, to "renew" such 707 and DC8.... the question is just, which engines you can put in.
we have to find out more. i do not remember where i read the article about upgrading the 707's.....

i was in ferihegy on sunday. i was really shocked which kind of a/c i have seen there.
i honestly must say, i could not define it  ;D maybe tupolev or ilyushin for cargo operation but a lot
of a/c which are really old fly but not here  :'(

i was thinking about the following: sami could make a test. he will subvensionate the fuel to 50% of real value BUT you only can buy russian a/c while the eastern block era. it would be a great idea. and i think there would also fly TU-124 till 1983 (regarding next jet age) I PROMISE HEREBY I WILL OPEN MY AIRLINE IN THE USSR ! and i will make nice pressreleases with the "Glory and loved Communists Party... of the USSR"  :laugh:

but honestly. there are many things which could be done.

Offline schro

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 03:35:09 AM »
looooooool @schro ??
you should check the stats  ;D

in real about 2x more boeing 707/720 were sold than DC8...

and you should read the comment of curse. in real, douglas have had problems with marketing.....

I did check the stats. I'm well aware that the 707/720 sold 2x as many as the DC8.  However, when you look back at history, you see that the DC-8 was ultimatly the better plane, thus was in service far longer than the 707.  UPS was flying a fleet of 40+ DC8's until a year or two ago... and at that same time, Saha over in Iran was the only commercial 707 operator still flying it (of course, N707JT will keep going for a while longer).

Players in the Jet Age have the advantage of seeing how the pros/cons played out between the two planes and are chosing their fleet accordingly. Airlines that ordered the 707's in well.. the real jet age, didn't have a very good crystal ball.

Lets review a few more things:

Primary operators of the 707:
TWA - Bankrupt
Eastern - Bankrupt
PanAm - Bankrupt
BOAC - Bailed out by the British government and molded into British Airways.

Primary operators of the DC8:
United
Delta
Air Canada
KLM
SAS

Notice a trend....?

THI

  • Former member
Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2010, 08:54:45 AM »
the bankrupts of this airlines do not have anything about the DC8 or 707  :laugh:

but: you are at the end right.... it seems, the dc8 was built for longer usage and the maintenance was cheaper and the aircraft was more economical.

Offline Name_Omitted

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 10:16:58 PM »
There is a joke about airline heaven.

Douglass would design aircraft,
Lockheed would build them,
Boeing would sell them.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: DC8 vs 707
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2010, 10:42:29 PM »
There is a joke about airline heaven.

Douglass would design aircraft,
Lockheed would build them,
Boeing would sell them.

I don't know what you mean about airline heaven but I think that statement would be like hell to the airlines lol. 
The true perfect airplane would be designed by Lockheed, built by Boeing and sold by Douglas.

 

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