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Author Topic: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply  (Read 5372 times)

Offline delbacmex

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Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« on: August 25, 2010, 03:42:29 AM »
Ok today I got alot of these warnings.  Most of the routes I am the only competitor flying and also I only have one flight daily.  I do not think that this auto program should be flagging me since I am the only competitor on the route.  

VEN273, SVMI - MNMG, View route
VEN187, SVMI - MROC, View route
VEN063, SVMI - MTPP, View route
VEN449, MUHA - SVMI, View route
VEN093, MUHA - SVMI, View route
VEN199, SVMC - SKBO, View route
VEN061, SVMI - SKCC, View route
VEN201, SVMC - SKCL, View route
VEN057, SVMI - SKRG, View route
VEN087, SVMI - SVAN, View route
VEN195, SVMC - SVBC, View route
VEN013, SVMI - SVBC, View route
VEN191, SVMC - SVBI, View route
VEN035, SVMI - SVBM, View route
VEN023, SVMI - SVCL, View route
VEN027, SVMI - SVCN, View route
VEN491, SVMC - SVCO, View route
VEN021, SVMI - SVCO, View route
VEN219, SVMC - SVCP, View route
VEN019, SVMI - SVCP, View route
VEN197, SVMC - SVCU, View route
VEN015, SVMI - SVCU, View route
VEN495, SVMC - SVJC, View route
VEN497, SVMI - SVJC, View route
VEN003, SVMI - SVMC, View route
VEN041, SVMI - SVMC, View route
VEN207, SVPM - SVMC, View route
VEN189, SVSA - SVMC, View route
VEN391, SVSO - SVMC, View route
VEN141, SVMI - KEWR, View route
VEN485, SVMI - KEWR, View route
VEN397, SVMI - SKCL, View route
VEN427, SVMI - SLLP, View route
VEN033, SVMI - SVLF, View route
VEN017, SVPM - SVMI, View route
VEN009, SVSA - SVMI, View route
VEN043, SVSA - SVMI, View route
VEN025, SVSO - SVMI, View route
VEN451, SVSZ - SVMI, View route
VEN029, SVVL - SVMI, View route
VEN039, SVMI - TBPB, View route
VEN359, SVMI - TBPB, View route
VEN085, TFFR - SVMI, View route
VEN005, TGPY - SVMI, View route
VEN169, TGPY - SVMI, View route
VEN091, TJBQ - SVMI, View route
VEN083, TLPL - SVMI, View route
VEN053, TNCB - SVMI, View route
VEN079, TNCC - SVMI, View route
VEN055, TTCP - SVMI, View route
VEN427, SVMI - SLLP, View route
VEN011, SVMI - SVBI, View route
VEN179, SVMI - KDTW, View route
VEN283, SVMI - KDTW, View route
VEN255, SVMI - KTPA, View route
VEN363, SVMI - MMUN, View route
VEN077, SVMI - MMUN, View route
VEN225, SVMI - MMUN, View route
VEN187, SVMI - MROC, View route
VEN093, SVMI - MUHA, View route
VEN449, SVMI - MUHA, View route
VEN043, SVSA - SVMI, View route
VEN441, TISX - SVMI, View route
VEN445, TLPC - SVMI, View route

and more......
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 03:45:34 AM by delbacmex »

Offline Sigma

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2010, 04:26:03 AM »
Being anti-competitive usually does mean you're the only one on the route.  That's the problem.  Your actions of over-supplying demand makes new competition extremely unlikely as it deters anyone from competing against you on the line.  That's the entire reasons people do it most of the time and the reason it is against the rules.

Supplying over 200% of demand is the line.  One plane or not or whether you're alone on the route or not.

Offline delbacmex

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 04:57:07 AM »
Yes I understand all that.  But I still think that this is a bit of overkill.  On some route, within my country, no one else CAN fly them unless they base here in my country.  So I still think that an adjustment need to be made to the system.  I dont feel that I need to have 10 diferent fleet types in order to serve some routes that only have may 12-15 pax daily.  A 65 seat BA11 should be ok. 

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2010, 05:05:59 AM »
Well, no one is saying you must fly ten different fleet types to meet all the demand. However, you must still observe legal protocol.

There's nothing stopping you from re-configuring your BA11 to a premium layout to get under the 200% demand rule. Besides, with premium seating, you might even get more pax to fill your aircraft with. Seems like a win-win situation to me.


Talentz

Miltra

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2010, 05:07:09 AM »
I got the same message on some routes and I have my doubts if the program, detecting these 200%, is working correctly. While there are clearly two routes, where I oversupply, there are a lot of other routes where I don't. Following examples:

SHJ-ADE:
demand 50/day, my supply 100
ADE-SHJ:
deman 50/day, my supply 100, whereas 0 on Friday and 200 on Saturday due to rotation

AUH-LHR
demand 210/day, my supply 357, 513 or 558
one flight a day is not sufficient, and if I put a second flight, I get over the 200% on certain days.

SHJ-BEY
demand 80/day, my supply 100 with a DC-9 and once per week a DC-8. The DC-8 is a an oversupply, ok, but if I want to offer a daily flight I have to use it as I have no DC-9-capacity available on this day.

AUH-LTV
demand 160/day, my supply 300
there are a few days where I'm over the 200%, specially on day 6 and day 7. But the reminder of the week I'm within the 200%

Sami, can you please review the logic behind these warnings? Or increase the demand on my routes? :)

Offline Sigma

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2010, 05:17:01 AM »
Sounds to me like it's working just fine.

Having an excuse like, "a second flight puts me over 200%" or "some days I'm over 200% and other days I'm not" doesn't mean it's not working right, you are over 200% and that's the rule, the system isn't going to look at your fleet and go, "well, that's the only plane he's got, guess I should cut him some slack".  The rule is the rule.

It might mean you've got to fly 150% instead of 200%, it might mean you can't fly the route at all, it might mean you've got to reconfigure your aircraft and/or buy a different group to serve the route, there's lots of different ways to solve the problem.  Are they going to cost you some money -- yeah, that's the point.

Miltra

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2010, 05:22:11 AM »
I'd rather prefer to have a better demand....!


Or can you tell me, how I change a configuration of an A/C on Friday night to suit the route for Saturday and Sunday, and change it back on Sunday night to be ready again for the Monday to Friday flights?
« Last Edit: August 25, 2010, 05:44:38 AM by Miltra »

Offline Sami

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 06:33:22 AM »
The warning has been adjusted a bit so that the baseline to what it compares your available seats is now the average demand of the whole week, giving you a bit slack now on the sat/sun demand-lows.

In other words if the demand mo-su is for example:  120-100-110-120-130-80-90 => average is 107/day => oversupply threshold will be ~215-220 seats on any given day.

But like pointed out it's not if you are the only airline on that route or not. Oversupplying the route prevents anyone else from entering the route, or makes it harder, since you don't give a fair chance to them by flooding the route. And that's what the rule is about. And since people do not a) know or b) care of the rule this automatic system was needed, and it was up to player reports in the past for us to get information on the rule violations so the actions taken were very limited.

Miltra

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 07:15:08 AM »
Thanks Sami,
with this I can live!

jay_1

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 07:34:37 AM »
Please check Manila to Singapore. I got the warning and I believe I am not 200% over supplying and I also have a competitor on that route.

Offline Sami

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Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2010, 09:07:21 AM »
Finally there is a fee I'm not affected  ;D

Does this system count alliance oversupply in too? I checked all the things because of the inspection, but unsure if I missed something. Too much aircraft...  :-\ Don't want to get the administration to send some strike team out that paints my cat green or something like this...  ;)

Offline Sami

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2010, 09:07:45 AM »
Does this system count alliance oversupply in too?

No, a bit too difficult to manage automatically.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2010, 09:13:04 AM »
Ok, thanks, I'll have a second look than to make sure everything is fine.

Offline delbacmex

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 05:24:36 PM »
Well I am still getting dinged on some where no rule violation exists:

An example is:
CCS - PTY  I supply 138 seats daily.  Demand is:  164/142/138/149/170/120/132

Offline Sami

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2010, 05:50:29 PM »
Well I am still getting dinged on some where no rule violation exists:

You are misreading the charts or the message since neither of the two SVMI-MPTO routes have been warned.


(trust me, I've confirmed he oversupply calculation many times now, and I owe a pint for someone who finds it wrong .. so prove me wrong) ;)

Offline debitants

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 06:35:18 PM »
I think that this system should have some number of pax limit - it is silly that you get warning for the route, where average demand is 20 pax/day. Who will try to compete in such routes?? Even if there someone adjust his plane for this demand, still he won`t face any competition, because you cant make profit if you are competing in such routes (there is no big profit even when you are alone there).

I think it would be worth to implement this anti monopoly thing when a number of passengers is greater than 50-60  day.

And about adjusting the plane - the plane usually flies in more than one route, so if I make it suitable for this particular route, it`s not anymore suitable for others. In my case it means suspending the route YPAD - YWHA where are average 20 pax a day and my plane has capacity of 36.. (btw it is less than 200 %, still got the warning).

Ok, now i have a new challenge for this evening - to find a solution :D

Nibor

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 11:19:45 PM »
Notification from the Anti Monopoly Bureau,

The Game Rules state that airline is not allowed to oversupply routes with excess seat capacity to allow fair competition. The automatic checking system has found some of your routes to be in violation of these rules (you provide too much capacity on the routes, and are exceeding the limits set forth in the rules).

Please check these routes and reduce their capacity immediately so that they are no longer oversupplied against the rules. If changes are not made within 48 hours the system will close down these routes.


Routes in violation of the rules:

BOA101, LFST - LSZH 


Please be aware that oversupplying a route is forbidden in the game rules and airlines violating the rules may be penalized.


----------------------------------------------

i am sure if i withdraw this flight, Strasbourgs inhabitants will have to look for a trainsim program.


Mrrshan

  • Former member
Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 02:42:12 AM »
You are misreading the charts or the message since neither of the two SVMI-MPTO routes have been warned.


(trust me, I've confirmed he oversupply calculation many times now, and I owe a pint for someone who finds it wrong .. so prove me wrong) ;)

Routes in violation of the rules:

    QZA037, HAK - WUH, View route
    QZA003, SYX - HAK, View route
    QZA005, FOC - HAK, View route
    QZA041, FOC - HAK, View route
    QZA011, KWE - HAK, View route

Routes in violation of the rules:

    QZA029, HAK - WUH, View route

Routes in violation of the rules:

    QZA037, HAK - WUH, View route
    QZA041, FOC - HAK, View route

QZA003, SYX - HAK:
 Estimate      4000 passengers / month
130 passengers / day

Airlines on this route
Days    Flight #    Dep    Arr    Aircraft    Airline    
1234567    QZA004    1335    1430    F100    Qiongzhou Airways


QZA005, QZA041, FOC - HAK:
Estimate      8500 passengers / month
280 passengers / day

Airlines on this route
Days    Flight #    Dep    Arr    Aircraft    Airline    
1234567    QZA042    0935    1150    F100    Qiongzhou Airways    
1234567    QZA006    1910    2125    F100    Qiongzhou Airways


QZA011, KWE - HAK:
Estimate      7600 passengers / month
250 passengers / day

Airlines on this route
Days    Flight #    Dep    Arr    Aircraft    Airline    
1234567    QZA012    2140    2325    F100    Qiongzhou Airways


QZA029, QZA037, HAK - WUH:
Estimate      10000 passengers / month
330 passengers / day

Airlines on this route
Days    Flight #    Dep    Arr    Aircraft    Airline    
1234567    QZA029    1000    1240    F100    Qiongzhou Airways    
1234567    QZA037    1745    2025    F100    Qiongzhou Airways



Proof.

Offline Sami

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Re: Anti Monopoly Bureau: Route closure warning - Oversupply
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 09:40:29 AM »

Seems that those all are Chinese domestic routes?  There was an issue with the demand figures of China for some hours yesterday so it triggered those I believe. http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,24416.0.html   

You can safely disregard them.

 

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