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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: About game rules (slots, competition etc)  (Read 11990 times)

Offline NorgeFly

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2010, 01:34:39 AM »
thomas he is doing his job, but you're making it difficult for him as you're constantly b****ing (sorry for the language sami) about the most insignificant things, like how many slots Atlanta or another airport in the US has. IT DOESN'T MATTER! if there's no slots, then DEAL WITH IT. I know I do, and when that happens, like it does in RL as well, I just work around it. I find an alternative. and if you want him to go and waste all his time to make your needs met, than why not do it yourself, to make his job easier. heck, he might even thank you for doing that. :-\

Cheers,
ICEcold

I have to agree with Austin's comment here. The slot system as it is reflects the real World fairly well. Airlines like BA suffer from highly restricted growth at their hub due to a dire lack of slots at LHR and the same happens in AWS. If a player chooses to base at any of the World's busiest airports then they have to accept that they may never achieve their full potential due to a shortage of slots.

Airline's do not build runways and terminals, that is the job of the airport authorities/governments.

I think Sami strikes a fairly good balance between game and simulator and I personally would not like to see it slide more towards being a game. There are some aspects of AWS that need tweaking but I don't think the slot system is particularly problematic.

Offline Seattle

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2010, 02:04:00 AM »
your job. not mine.
Actually..... it really isnt. A large majority of the non major airports and airplanes in this game came from people who submitted data during the pre-beta phase. Since you want reform so badly (which I don't disagree with), then you can go and collect data for the amount of slots in major airports for the past 50 years.
Founder of the Star Alliance!

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2010, 12:55:00 PM »
I just said this in another thread.

IF WE TAKE CARE OF THE COMMONALITY ISSUE, WE WILL HAVE FEWER OTHER PROBLEMS!

1.  Make all used a/c either all economy class or make them all with a mix.  You can't give a massive advantage to those few people who get the A300 at the beginning.

2.  Limit the number of a/c types for the love of god!.   

Here's how Atlanta/London/HK are owned.

1.  Lease a plane with Y/C seating and put those on good $$$$ making routes.
2.  Lease more of those planes while few others can afford them
3.  Lease EVERYTHING ELSE!   (I see these airlines with A320, MD80, MD90, 737ng, 737c, and 757 all at the same time!)
4.  Use up all the slots at your home airport.
5.  Move on to another airport and do the same thing.
6.  Retire the leases with new planes.

See how easy that is!!!!!!!!!

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2010, 01:45:07 PM »
Airline's do not build runways and terminals, that is the job of the airport authorities/governments.

There may be some exceptions.  For example, at New York JFK, some airlines have their own terminals.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2010, 01:53:06 PM »
they dont build them, they simply occupy all of the slots in them.

Offline Sigma

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2010, 01:59:32 PM »
Quote
There may be some exceptions.  For example, at New York JFK, some airlines have their own terminals.

they dont build them, they simply occupy all of the slots in them.

In JFK there's only a single airline that has "it's own terminal", and that is Delta @ Terminal 3, every other terminal has multiple occupants (Terminal 8 seems to be almost entirely AA but I believe I've seen other oneworld partners there, regardless they didn't pay its recent reconstruction).  And they actually do own it, but they didn't build it, having bought it as a result of Pan Am's bankruptcy.  And it's actually being replaced starting this year with a new Terminal and the old one is being demolished.  Delta is not paying for the new one outside of a very small percentage (low single-digits) of the cost.  News reports almost always say a terminal is being built "by" an airline, but that's virtually never the case -- reality is that the port/transit authority operating the airport is putting up 90%+ of the cost via bond issuances, most of the remainder is being paid by facility usage fees, and some tiny remainder is paid for by airlines.

Bottom Lines:  The practice of owning ones own terminals is exceedingly rare and terminals have virtually nothing to do with slots anyways except the rare cases of flights backing onto runways because there's no open gates.  Slots are a function of runway capacity and airlines do not build runways.  They might campaign for them, but they do not build them.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 02:08:27 PM by Sigma »

Offline [ATA] - lilius

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2010, 03:10:14 PM »
Swiftus is right. It is always the same unfortunately and a reason why many players gives up games.

Airports IRL makes money on passengers so to me its not realistic that they want to sell slots to airlines flying Saab 2000 or ATR if they know they can sell it to be used for a an international jumbojet later.

A new system has to be found because its incredibly boring to play against players using "slot hoggers tactics".  
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 03:14:37 PM by lilius »

Offline carrisi

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2010, 09:21:05 AM »
How many bases can we open in Alliance Challenge

With only 100 players surely there should be no limit?

Offline NorgeFly

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2010, 10:59:19 AM »
Airports IRL makes money on passengers so to me its not realistic that they want to sell slots to airlines flying Saab 2000 or ATR if they know they can sell it to be used for a an international jumbojet later. 

In real life, airports do not sell slots to airlines and in fact (Europe certainly) they have no control over slots, especially at the slot controlled airports like LHR, LGW, MAN etc. At slot controlled airports the slots are allocated (not sold) on a first come first served basis by an independent body and once they have a slot, it belongs to them as long as they continue to need it - if they don't use it, it's confiscated - like AWS. Airlines can choose to fly whatever aircraft they wish to utilise their slots. That is why you do occasionally see E145's or F50's at LHR, keeping slots warm for airlines that don't necessarily have the bigger aircraft available right now. At quieter airports it's not an issue as there are plenty of slots available. Slots are only sold between airlines where there is a shortage of free slots at the correct times.

Personally, I see no problem with the current slot system. Lets face it, in real life there is probably a list if airlines as long as my leg that would like to fly to LHR but can't get the slots... why should AWS be any different. 

Pavlov

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2010, 11:01:41 AM »
As slots are used up, and only a very small percentage remain, I think the system should just add a slot, and increase the slot price.  It is a game after all.  Doing so would remove the #1 frusration item in AWS.

BTW, I should probably post this to Feature request, airports with high demand / slot ratio should have far higher slot prices that is currently the case.

I completely agree with you on this!

There is a key turning-point - in slots costs - at which flying a too small plane will not generate enough income (ticket sales) to justify the expenses (slot costs). It will make airlines think twice, because logically you cut such a route or use a bigger plane.


See how easy that is!!!!!!!!!

So easy and yet so many fail in the Alliance game world?!
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 11:05:13 AM by CX920 »

THI

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2010, 03:41:40 PM »
I think it is fine as is, to get current info, and go backwards in time to reduce the slots based on the start date of the game world.

But from this starting point, I would allow more flexibility in how slots grow.  As slots are used up, and only a very small percentage remain, I think the system should just add a slot, and increase the slot price.  It is a game after all.  Doing so would remove the #1 frusration item in AWS.

BTW, I should probably post this to Feature request, airports with high demand / slot ratio should have far higher slot prices that is currently the case.

what do you think about that sami ?

Offline [ATA] - lilius

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2010, 02:22:15 PM »
In real life, airports do not sell slots to airlines and in fact (Europe certainly) they have no control over slots, especially at the slot controlled airports like LHR, LGW, MAN etc. At slot controlled airports the slots are allocated (not sold) on a first come first served basis by an independent body and once they have a slot, it belongs to them as long as they continue to need it - if they don't use it, it's confiscated - like AWS. Airlines can choose to fly whatever aircraft they wish to utilise their slots. That is why you do occasionally see E145's or F50's at LHR, keeping slots warm for airlines that don't necessarily have the bigger aircraft available right now. At quieter airports it's not an issue as there are plenty of slots available. Slots are only sold between airlines where there is a shortage of free slots at the correct times.

Personally, I see no problem with the current slot system. Lets face it, in real life there is probably a list if airlines as long as my leg that would like to fly to LHR but can't get the slots... why should AWS be any different. 

I also enjoy realism but the concern is a result of turboprop frequency slothog mania. Turboprops or smaller jets are not used to fly to high demand destinations IRL because it wouldnt make sense to fill a 2500daily demand with 50 small turbopropds departing per day when you can do it with 320s or 737.


Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2010, 02:34:34 PM »
perhaps we should have a max # of flights between A and B?

jest

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2010, 07:13:21 PM »
I say stop the restrictions. I believe in free market. Whether you have it or you dont.  :)

Offline Sigma

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2010, 11:12:01 PM »
I also enjoy realism but the concern is a result of turboprop frequency slothog mania. Turboprops or smaller jets are not used to fly to high demand destinations IRL because it wouldnt make sense to fill a 2500daily demand with 50 small turbopropds departing per day when you can do it with 320s or 737.

It would happen in real-life if real customers thought, "Oh My god!  Like, I really liked this one airline, but then, like, this other airline came in and, started flying 36 times a day to Chicago.  And I was, like, ohmygod, that is SOOOO much better than my old favorite who only flew 32 times per day."

...Like they do in AWS

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2010, 01:00:34 AM »
There are 2.4x more F100s in this game than were ever made in real life.

oh. and 27 CRJ1s & CRJ2s are in service or on order.   15 CRJ7s on order and 47 CRJ9s...

They made 1050+ CRJ1s and 2s, and 537 CRJ7s and 9s in real life.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 01:08:48 AM by swiftus27 »

Offline elvis141

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2010, 11:09:31 AM »
Swiftus is there anything in  this that is good?

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2010, 12:14:50 PM »
^^^ who are you?

remember that this game is in BETA and many of us are here to try to make the end product better.  

If you were here in early 2009, you'd understand that this sim is constantly changing.

I constantly post features and bugs.  
If you look at the top of the General Forum you'll see that I posted a guide for newbs.  
Every time someone asks for help, I try to be there.  

Before you start posting, you really should know what you are talking about.  

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2010, 12:29:01 PM »
remember that this game is in BETA and many of us are here to try to make the end product better.  

Beta? No. The beta testing ended already in Dec-2008. AWS evolves and gets improvements and new features but it's far from a beta level product.


Before you start posting, you really should know what you are talking about.  

Also, I would advise to post in a bit more friendlier tone towards other members, as that may sound quite rude.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2010, 12:30:39 PM »
I apologize Sami, but I dont need someone not in this game yelling at me saying that I find everything in this game as "bad".  His obvious tone here and in the feature forum (with a simple -1) on an exploit that needs to be closed is clear to me.  Dont accuse me of being a "negative nancy" unless you really know what you are talking about.   And Sami, instead of only coming in here to defend him, why don't you make a comment on this thread?   

Concerning Beta, I confused this sim with Goallineblitz.  That one has been in beta since 2008.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 12:55:01 PM by swiftus27 »

 

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