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Author Topic: About game rules (slots, competition etc)  (Read 11994 times)

Offline doing2030@hotmail.com

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2010, 09:50:48 PM »
Hi Guys,

I really must apologies to everyone of all alliances. I didn't know that it was against the rules and I've absolutely no excuse as the rules are crystal clear.

I understand that everyone must be unhappy with me and I can understand however I didn't mean to break any rules and was not aware of the rule. As soon as I found out it was against the rules, I put steps to rectify the issue.

Apolgies to all and lets have a great game world.

Jon

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2010, 09:53:18 PM »
In regards to Jon's comment, I have also adjusted the airline founding page so that there is a direct link to the rules page and you need to "check & agree" the rules when creating the airline. This way there shouldn't be a chance to miss them if you don't happen to browse the manual.

THI

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2010, 09:58:01 PM »
it is so unbelievable.

THE ROULES WERE NOT CLEAR !!!!
there is nowhere written, that it is not allowed to save a slot after 2 months again.

i cannot understand how people can always say, that sami is right.
it was not in the rules. not explicit. IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT CHRISTAL CLEAR !
there is nothing written detailled about that.

it is like cheating: the programmer MUST allow cheating with some hints or with hotkeys.
IT IS OK BUT: it is unfair, if you manipulate with an hexeditor some saved games or however.

but there is no manipulation here.
this is just an idea from someone who wants to protect the people, but without any sense.
you pay for slots. they are yours. for two months. if you pay again, they are yours again.
if you dont have money in a game, you cannot play a business simulation successfully.

good night for today


Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2010, 10:09:30 PM »

For the love of ....... Sorry, but try to take a moment and read what I have posted. And what is written in the manual. I will repeat once more to be sure, but not anymore after this as it has been posted like three times already in this thread alone.


It's impossible to write down all possible variations but I feel that the chapter should explain fairly well on what is the idea behind the rule


The rule says CLEARLY that:
Player / airline is not allowed to use unfair tactics with the aim of being able to control more slots than the normal airline operation requires

AND that:
(forbidden to act so) ...that slots that would otherwise expire are kept under the control of the airline.

AND also:
(forbidden to act so) ...that the only purpose is to get airport slots and preserve them for future use.


So even when I say that everything cannot be written down, the thing what you are still arguing about is clearly written there. Man, try to understand it now, gosh. I have said that the rules cannot be 100% clearly written to cover all possible cases, and if in doubt one should ask. You did ask, you got the answer, a couple of times already. If there really is still something that is unclear about the rules and their phrasing please do ask. But I cannot understand what could be unclear about it anymore.



(And for the record, there are no built-in cheats here, and never will be. And the rules are made for fair play and to enable a level playing field for everyone. Game money vs. slots is also irrelevant, as the rules are only in place to disallow this type of anti-competitive behaviour.)
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 10:20:26 PM by sami »

THI

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2010, 10:20:05 PM »
but if i order an aircraft and it is delievered 1 year later this is not:

Player / airline is not allowed to use unfair tactics with the aim of being able to control more slots than the normal airline operation requires


...that slots that would otherwise expire are kept under the control of the airline.
(aircraft is ordered, will not expire after aircraft is delievered)

...so that the only purpose is to get airport slots and preserve them for future use.
for what can i plan routes in the future ?

this is chrystal clear like chrystal from china. it is bad chrystal. not real chrystal.
i love christal from czech republic.

ONE SENTENCE:
you are not allowed to reserve a reserved slot again because other players should have the chance to use that slots.

that would be chrystal clear (czech quality)

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2010, 10:45:19 PM »
THI the rules were clear.  They explicitly state that you are not allowed to hold slots for future use for a period longer than the two months that the automated system allows.  But what they were is basically irrelevant at this point anyways, because Sami has certainly made them clear now if they weren't before.  What exactly are you arguing for here?  You seem to be picking a fight with Sami for no reason.

Pavlov

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2010, 10:54:17 PM »
I'm sorry mate. But there is stubborn and beyond reason. Your window of opportunity is two months. Period.

An airline doesn't need slots ie. 6 months before utalization. It's the CEO who doesn't want to release them.

Consider the following: In reallife BAA (the owner of LHR) uses a 'Use it or Loose it' principal on their slots (although I don't know the timeframe, I assure you it won't be +2 months).

Constantly renewing slots slightly before automatic removal is not allowed, it's too complex to code in the game. But if you feel a desire to utalize this gap: save the complains once you've been fined/bankrupted or both.

Before you start talking to me: you're not the only paying customer.

THI

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2010, 10:57:29 PM »
no fight.

why ?
i never would fight against a person, where i will loose 100%
(he is the boss here)

in german we say arschkriechen. that means, that some people always say "oh sami you are right" "oh sami you do soooo well" "oh sami, you are mister universum" i do not do. he does, i never said anything else, a great job and i spent couple of hours here. and i love it. i love some people here too. but:

i tell you something: i was telling my stepfather 24 years ago (i was 5 yrs old) that the pope, john paul is the holy father because i was told that in kindergarden. my stepfather answered: "thomas. he is going the same way to toilet like we do...."

sami is not the pope. he owns (i think) this here. and i feel like a customer.
as a customer i am accepting TOU and TOC. thats normal. if things in this TOU/TOC are not clear for me, normally there is a customer service who is helping a customer with any problem. it WAS not clear, NOW it is.
that is all.

for me this thread is closed. i have said, what i wanted to say.

@cx920: why should i talk to you ?

 

Miller11

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2010, 11:47:38 PM »
THI for god sake man we have to deal with this rubbish on the Alliance forum from you. Just shut up m8 your worse than the BL**DY wife. It is absolutly obvious that taking slots 1 year or 6months before they will be required is just plain UNFAIR.......Come on use a bit of common sense.....On another note though I feel that in the Alliance game thr Alliance as a whole should be able to 'target' another player from another Alliance..while I can appreciate that this may be classed as unfair this is an Alliance game and in real life Alliances do compete/fight.

Thanks and I hope you do not feel that i have been too hard on THI

Miller11 :)

Offline carrisi

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2010, 02:16:23 AM »

Come on guys - the rules are clear, simple and fair.

You order an aircraft for delivery, within a month of delivery you schedule it. You want to "reserve" slots, then you have to buy small aircraft and fly the route with multiple (ie regular) small aircraft - if you can at least break even that is. Then when your bigger aircraft come later in the game, you change the slot over to a B744 flying 6000nm instead of a Brasilia flying 100nm. Simple.

Its no secret.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2010, 02:27:05 AM »
And exactly that's the problem. Airlines can't reserve "slots" at airports that are far away...

Offline ZombieSlayer

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2010, 07:42:06 AM »
Which is a problem. If I order 777's to fly a specific route, say ORD-DXB, and when I order that aircraft slots are open on both ends, I should be able to fly that route when the plane arrives. In real life, this would be the case as the majority of airports are NOT slot controlled (offhand I can think of LGA, ORD, and LHR, although I am sure there are others). In AWS, however, if I have to wait 18 months for an airplane, I have to fork out the cash to buy/lease it without knowing if I will be able to fly it anywhere when it arrives.

A solution I propose is to allow a SMALL number of slots to be held up to 1 year at any given airport, or possibly tie slots to an ordered aircraft and allow the slots to be held until 2 months after that airplane arrives. Not many, maybe 14 or 21 slots for 2-3 daily flights, and not at every airport either, maybe limit the number of slots that can be held past 2 months to 2-3 total airports. To program this, use a check box. When scheduling a route, should the user not plan on using the slots for more than 2 months, they click the check box and it puts those slots in an extended hold. The system should then recognize when the maximum number of extended hold slots has been reached and black out the check box so no additional slots can be reserved.

Sami, would something like this be a possibility?

Don
Co-Founder Elite Worldwide Alliance
CEO PacAir
Designated "Tier 1 Opponent"

Offline JonnyAngel

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2010, 11:26:16 AM »
A solution I propose is to allow a SMALL number of slots to be held up to 1 year at any given airport, or possibly tie slots to an ordered aircraft and allow the slots to be held until 2 months after that airplane arrives. Not many, maybe 14 or 21 slots for 2-3 daily flights, and not at every airport either, maybe limit the number of slots that can be held past 2 months to 2-3 total airports. To program this, use a check box. When scheduling a route, should the user not plan on using the slots for more than 2 months, they click the check box and it puts those slots in an extended hold. The system should then recognize when the maximum number of extended hold slots has been reached and black out the check box so no additional slots can be reserved.

Sami, would something like this be a possibility?

Don

Agree with jetwest. I don't know if this is even feasible sami, but if it could be coded it would be a fantastic addition. Especially given the back logs we often encounter jockeying for production slots...

Offline doing2030@hotmail.com

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2010, 12:01:23 PM »
Come on guys - the rules are clear, simple and fair.

You order an aircraft for delivery, within a month of delivery you schedule it. You want to "reserve" slots, then you have to buy small aircraft and fly the route with multiple (ie regular) small aircraft - if you can at least break even that is. Then when your bigger aircraft come later in the game, you change the slot over to a B744 flying 6000nm instead of a Brasilia flying 100nm. Simple.

Its no secret.

I thought that was illegal per the rules (although my track record with them is not great), the rules state....

Quote
The airline is also forbidden to acquire aircraft and route them so that the only purpose is to get airport slots and preserve them for future use.

What you have described above is a clear breach of those rules? What do people think?

Personally I think it is extremely difficult line to draw.

Offline Sigma

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2010, 12:41:34 PM »
I thought that was illegal per the rules (although my track record with them is not great), the rules state....

What you have described above is a clear breach of those rules? What do people think?

Personally I think it is extremely difficult line to draw.

Its fine to do that.  Sami has said so -- as long as the aircraft you're starting with to preserve slots is one that's large enough to maintain profitability with, i.e. no using 7pax Cessnas or something.  That's why the very next sentence to the one you posted clarifies the rule:

Quote
In practise this would mean routing aircraft to airports and routes that provide no profit, or by clearly oversupplying the estimated pax demand, and later switching the routes to other airports when more suitable aircraft equipment is available.

Offline GjedDa

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2010, 01:03:45 PM »
new plan. Fill up LHR-cdg with 9 seats planes... Guess I need around 150 planes :) But its allowed to do it. Not slot whoring, Its my tac.
And again. Getting waring since i send a 150 plane 2 times daily on a 200 pax daily route is just GAY. I actualla need to get another airplane type so the route doest get "over supplyed"

Bah

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2010, 01:33:53 PM »
Wait...

300 is not 2x 200...  THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM!  You were probably warned because you have 450 in one day during the week.  

Also, Sami just started implementing the system and we all need to be aware that things change.

I got warned in another game that I was leaving.  It was an 8000nm route and I just happened to have an A340 flying two return legs on one day per week.  

I think that Sami needs to do the following equation:

7x (Daily Demand x 2) = Z
If total seats per week > Z then you get message.

Your issue isn't slot whoring, it is oversupplying.  They are two different things.

Offline Seattle

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2010, 12:13:36 AM »
i do not comment that.
and you can be more friendly to a paying customer @seattle

next time, you should write it explicit in the rules. then such problems and questions would not exist.

Sorry! Wasnt meant to be so cold. I sortof was in a rush after reading the thread and gave a curt answer.
Founder of the Star Alliance!

THI

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2010, 06:44:34 AM »
f.e. now.
i was waking up early to hog slots  :o
no... just a joke.

but real: you have to fight very hard to get slots. thats in jetage
and in my opinion, this problem only exists in jetage. i dont speak about LHR or some
other airports in ATB/AC. but in jetage you make good profits also with a LF of 30%.
it is unbelievable, and i normally never say something nice to sami, but this time, i must
say: wow. he did a great job because with his calculations of fuelprice ->demand->other costs
he matched nearly 90% the airline reality in this time (the 70s)

what i want to say, and for me personally i have said what i wanted to say:
everything must be decided carefully and personally.
for example: the situation in atlanta is that, that there are absolutely not enough slots.
IF there would be enough slots, you would see a really nice fight between me and my competitor.
i never, absolutely never put some 7pax a/c on a route with a demand of 1000 to safe slots.
my competitor did in the past: he has had a fleet of (sorry for that, but it is the truth) real crap.
we all were wondering how he can survive with a fleet of 15 (!!!) different types. but is it slotwhoring ?
thats the question.

1) yes it is: he only buyed this used a/c (crap) to safe slots and nobody is able to use them in the future
2) no: he just wants to expand fast and serve all airports
3) nobody knows, it could be 1) or 2)

you know what i mean ?

@sami:
honestly. the rules must be in every way more explicit. you always say "i cannot explain it is too much....." but the problem is, that some people do not know how and what to do. and this makes people really angry. i am the best example. normally i am not that bad. you can have a lot of fun with me but i hate it, if there are things not clear. and the manual is absolutely not enough for a game like this.

everybody has his opinion in our free world.
i have mine, others have other opinion.

but when i read in globalsky, "YES HE IS GONE..." then do not wonder,why i have left this alliance.
and by the way to this player who wrote it after i have left: i promise you. you will have fun in the next atb or jetage if you join.


coatedmoney

  • Former member
Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2010, 09:35:01 AM »
Dude...

use your common sense and see how ridiculous you are being about a issue which is so small why should sami have to write a statement in rules about every tiny aspect.... it states what your arguing in the rules just not explicitly....

use your head... you cant keep slots for months on end when your not using them   

 

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