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Author Topic: About game rules (slots, competition etc)  (Read 12006 times)

Offline Sami

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About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« on: August 24, 2010, 05:39:02 PM »
Please do remember that while this game world mainly has experienced players and highly competitive setting the rules applied here are the standard AWS rules. http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Manual/General/Rules/

The few points to be reminded of these are the items related to fair competition and usage of slots. It is of course needless to remind what the rules say about these (as I suppose everyone knows them by now, and can read from the link I pasted there), but I would like to remind that any intentional violations of the rules will be penalized - and since this is an alliance game world with co-operative efforts the penalties may also affect the alliance as whole (the score for example).

So I suppose that the alliance managers are able to keep their "forces" informed about the rules and make sure that nobody tries any "illegal" methods.

Keep it fair and clean. Thanks.

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 05:56:19 PM »

Public note

BritishAtlantic, a GlobalSky alliance member, has been fined by the administration for $500 000 for intentionally hogging slots at UK airports. The alliance has received a -5 pts penalty on their score on this. Next rule violation of this airline will lead to airline closure.


(do note that this penalty is not standard, and publishing it isn't either; but since clearly rules are not fully respected and this may soon be a widespread thing, I am making myself very clear here what is not allowed)

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 06:40:31 PM »
Is 500k sufficient for any fine?  That's the cost of slotting one plane.  

On the other hand, I am glad to see you being proactive on this.

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 06:42:43 PM »
For an airline of that size, I'd say yes, as I don't want to bankrupt him with that. I just fined an airline in Jet Age for the same trick and it was $100m.....

This slot bitching is getting a bit too far so I am taking a clear and public stand on this now. So it should be clear that it's not worth it really.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 06:49:08 PM »
You need to set at least some standard or the "Sami as sole Judge" thing may end up hurting you in the end.  They are paying customers, after all.

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 06:54:18 PM »
You are right, there is no mention of this in "penalties" chapter in the manual. But it will be added.

THI

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 07:43:10 PM »
what do you understand under "hogging slots" ?

if anyone orders 10 a/c and he wants to ensure, that this 10 a/c have routes, is that hogging ?
it would be nice, if you explain exactly what is against the rules.

and by the way: it would be easy to forbid it by the code you wrote yourself. just do not allow to "reserve" slots for nonexisting a/c.

looking forward, to get an answer because i plan my routes always 7 weeks, before the a/c comes.....

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 07:50:02 PM »
if anyone orders 10 a/c and he wants to ensure, that this 10 a/c have routes, is that hogging ?

If the planes arrive in 2-4 weeks or so, then feel free to pre-plan the routes (ie. when pre-scheduling becomes available, then it's clear that opening routes is possible & allowed & normal ..etc).

But if they arrive in 6 months or so, then it's clearly forbidden (read the chapter on this item from the manual with some thought and I'm sure you will understand the "clue": Player / airline is not allowed to use unfair tactics with the aim of being able to control more slots than the normal airline operation requires.  ...  The airline is also forbidden to acquire aircraft and route them so that the only purpose is to get airport slots and preserve them for future use.).

In these couple cases what I've fined the routes have been planned to aircraft that will never arrive in near future or may have not been even ordered yet etc. This was detected from checking the slot usage from game databases and checking also aircraft routings etc.

It's impossible to write down all possible variations but I feel that the chapter should explain fairly well on what is the idea behind the rule, and if it's unclear you should always check and ask like you did now.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 07:53:25 PM by sami »

THI

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 07:59:30 PM »
But if they arrive in 6 months or so, then it's clearly forbidden (read the chapter on this item from the manual with some thought and I'm sure you will understand the "clue": Player / airline is not allowed to use unfair tactics with the aim of being able to control more slots than the normal airline operation requires.  ...  The airline is also forbidden to acquire aircraft and route them so that the only purpose is to get airport slots and preserve them for future use.).

In these couple cases what I've fined the routes have been planned to aircraft that will never arrive in near future or may have not been even ordered yet etc. This was detected from checking the slot usage from game databases and checking also aircraft routings etc.

It's impossible to write down all possible variations but I feel that the chapter should explain fairly well on what is the idea behind the rule, and if it's unclear you should always check and ask like you did now.

sami. honestly. if someone makes it for NEVER planned routes you are 100000% right. but come on. if you order 10 a/c and the 10 a/c will come within the next 10 months, it is absolutely not right, that this is unfair. you never said, i am right. but if finnair oders a/c and they arrive 1 year later, i am sure, that the flight devision has planned everything in detail how to use them. you yourself allwow to reserve slots for nonexisting a/c. you do not forbid it by your programmed code. so. i do NOT agree if anybody has ordered 10 a/c and delievery is within 10 months, that i cannot plan this routes. it would be unfair by you if you forbid that.


Offline Minto Typhoon

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 08:06:10 PM »
Like THI, I also schedule my flights before they come up as being available for actual 'scheduling' - this is due to work commitments, etc.   I only do this for one or two aircraft at a time.

Am I considered to be hogging slots - because thats not what I'm trying to do.

Secondly, if you change your flight schedules and dont have space for a route, can you just leave the flight in suspension till you have capacity or is that also considered slot hogging?


Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 08:06:56 PM »
The max. allowed time to keep the slots unused is two months by system design. So you may not keep the slots reserved for 10 months waiting aircraft to be delivered.

And really coding it to the system is not that simple what you make it sound. There is already the automatic removal for unused slots (removed if not used for two months) but having an automated system detect possible changes in the routes and other tricks is practically impossible as there are so many variations and possibilities on how to cheat there. But perhaps you have suggestions on how to make it.


Like THI, I also schedule my flights before they come up as being available for actual 'scheduling' - this is due to work commitments, etc.   I only do this for one or two aircraft at a time.
..
Secondly, if you change your flight schedules and dont have space for a route, can you just leave the flight in suspension till you have capacity or is that also considered slot hogging?

These cases what I've posted here have involved more than just 1-2 slots, so for "normal operations" there is no need to worry. The prescheduling vs. routes isn't also that clear, there is no set date when you can do it since it depends on how you can visit the site and so on like you said. But like I posted; if you do it some weeks before the plane arrives it is OK but doing it MONTHS in advance cannot be considered normal ops anymore since in that case you are restricting other airlines by reserving the slots too much in advance.

And for second part, there is the 2 month limitation on which you can basically keep the existing route and slot inactive - after that the slot is gone, so I believe this is also a good baseline for these types of changes.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 08:12:29 PM by sami »

THI

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 08:08:09 PM »
so. i renew after 2 months.

what is the problem ? you allow it.

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 08:10:48 PM »
so. i renew after 2 months.

what is the problem ? you allow it.

This is exactly what is NOT allowed. Even though the system will remove the slot after 2 months of inactivity, getting it then again-and-again-and-again for several months in a row is exactly what's not allowed in the rules even though that is technically possible by the user to do. Since in such case your only goal there is to keep the slot for yourself and not using it for months and months in a row, and forbid others of being able to use it.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 08:16:43 PM »
For an airline of that size, I'd say yes, as I don't want to bankrupt him with that. I just fined an airline in Jet Age for the same trick and it was $200m.....

$200m and it's ok if you will follow this strategy for the future.

THI

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 08:18:52 PM »
...
i dont find words.
...

so.
how i understand:
if i take ALL the slots at january 1st and will use them within 1 month, it is ok for you ?


Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 08:50:38 PM »
You can take as much slots as your airline needs for operation. Not more. The rules are clear and everybody who breaches them knows what he is doing.

Offline Seattle

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 09:15:56 PM »
...
i dont find words.
...

so.
how i understand:
if i take ALL the slots at january 1st and will use them within 1 month, it is ok for you ?


2 months! Read what he said. After that they go bye-bye.
Founder of the Star Alliance!

THI

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 09:35:54 PM »
i do not comment that.
and you can be more friendly to a paying customer @seattle

next time, you should write it explicit in the rules. then such problems and questions would not exist.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 09:42:33 PM »
i do not comment that.
and you can be more friendly to a paying customer @seattle

next time, you should write it explicit in the rules. then such problems and questions would not exist.

Seattle IS a paying customer. 

Offline Sami

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Re: About game rules (slots, competition etc)
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 09:47:47 PM »
next time, you should write it explicit in the rules. then such problems and questions would not exist.

It's impossible to write down all possible variations but I feel that the chapter should explain fairly well on what is the idea behind the rule, and if it's unclear you should always check and ask like you did now.

 

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