AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive  (Read 5193 times)

mesonyx

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2010, 08:08:43 PM »
Real World -
There is nothing wrong with the Soviet built aircraft (possibley as the designs were based upon stolen western designs after the west ironed out the flaws such as the VC10 and IL62), what gives them a bad name is the poor maintenance standards of the airlines that operated them - however the fact that so many of them, used and abused by their original soviet owners, are still flying. Further still, in the real world there was a trade embargo that prevented the regulated western airlines of the cold war era purchasing soviet produced aircraft.

AWS World -
I was disapointed when i joined Air Travel Boom there were not loads of old cheaper TUs and ILs for sale/lease. 

Personally
I love the soviet models.  I love the older style designs with engines at the tail and also the tri-engined planes such as the VC10, B727 and my all time fav Tristar but it is only the likes of Tupolev and Ilyushin that still (or untill recently) continued to produce these designs.   

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 02:41:05 AM »
The Tu-154M is still being manufactured

Artem999

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 09:49:45 AM »
Maybe it would be a nice move to make Soviet/Russian aircraft more interesting. I know AWS is based on real data, but all those aircraft make no sense if (nearly) nobody wants to use them.

First ideas for this are;

1) lower their price

2) add some "special offers" (not all of them, more either or);
- Every year for one month for example the goverment pays 50% of the fuel bill for the aircraft for the first two years
- pays for all the maintenance costs for four years
- pays the difference for fuel if it hits $1000 (for ATB for example)
- no insurance costs

3) like in real life you have to pay extreme high toll if you want to fly non-russian aircraft in Russia


What I have in mind with this is the saying "at the end it's a game and fun is the first target".

Well, noone wants to use them because they are not such effective, productive and safe compared with Boeing, Airbus, Cessna, Fokker, Embraer etc.

Hwoarang

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2010, 11:39:41 PM »
Well, noone wants to use them because they are not such effective, productive and safe compared with Boeing, Airbus, Cessna, Fokker, Embraer etc.
Okay they use more fuel then their western counterparts but you can't say that a Boeing, Airbus, Cessna, Fokker of Embraer aircraft is safer than an Antonov, Ilyushin or a Tupolev. All aircraft are certified according to the same requirements ;)
Maintenance was a big issue in the USSR which caused many accidents with the airliners compared with the technical problems with lets say the 737 (from the faulty rudder design to the most recent altimeter issue) or the DC10 (faulty cargo door design).
The same BS was told when Airbus (two engined widebody), Fokker (glueing aircraft parts) and Embraer ('Jungle Jet') started to produce their aircraft. But they showed the world what they are really capable of. Now the Russians strike back with the Sukhoi Superjet, with Finnmeccanica (parent company of ATR) being partner of the project.
The 'west' (US/Europe) is always better than the 'east' (Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, Muslim states) propaganda of the United States during the cold war is still burried into your minds.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 11:41:50 PM by Hwoarang »

Offline Seattle

  • Members
  • Posts: 2791
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2010, 05:47:18 AM »
With the name of Artem..... Im guessing he is from the East  ;)
Founder of the Star Alliance!

Hwoarang

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2010, 09:52:26 AM »
With the name of Artem..... Im guessing he is from the East  ;)
Latvia is part of the European Union and still in the west of Russia, Iran, China and North Korea ;D
plus Latvians are Baltic people compared with Russians or Yugoslavs which are slavs ;D
;)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 09:55:23 AM by Hwoarang »

Artem999

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2010, 04:13:01 PM »
Latvia is part of the European Union and still in the west of Russia, Iran, China and North Korea ;D
plus Latvians are Baltic people compared with Russians or Yugoslavs which are slavs ;D
;)
Well, actually, I'm Russian. Not Latvian  :P
And seondly, I work in one of the largest airlines in Baltics and couldn't say that Russian Tupolev is more safely. Yes, maybe, but there is no proper maintenance in Russia.

P.S. Do not take this as offense, please :)

Hwoarang

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2010, 05:35:07 PM »
A BIG Sorry to Artem. When I saw your country, I automatically thought you was a Latvian :-[
From which experience do you (or the 'one of the largest Baltic airline') have that feeling? Lost several planes in the past?
Remember that Tupolev Tu-154's at Aeroflot have a safety record of 99%!
I'm not taking it as an offense, I'm just sick of people who attack those Russian birds on wrong points only because they aren't fuel efficient and the vulcano erupted on you, sorry :)

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2010, 03:23:52 AM »
I think a simple 50% off fuel prices for an all Russian carrier would be enough. That would even the playing field a bit more as fuel is the #1 killer of Russian metal. Of course this is only for all russian only... fumble and pick up any western aircraft and kiss 50% good-bye.

Perhaps, 15% off fuel for an airline with 50% or more Russian metal? So as not to be too harsh?


Other then that, everything is not that out of line. You'll see an increase of Russian metal not only because the B and A lines are full  ;)



Talentz

Offline Name_Omitted

  • Members
  • Posts: 292
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2010, 06:21:47 PM »
Im Algeria could be an exception?

Seattle, Russian tin, and Algeria.

*shudder*

Offline Name_Omitted

  • Members
  • Posts: 292
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2010, 06:25:27 PM »
How about just putting used Russian tin on the market.  The lease cost of USED (but fairly new) Russian aircraft, plus the lack of wait time, would go a long way to making it attractive.  And I can testify to Seattle's ability to kick ass with Russian aircraft in the '80's.

Offline Name_Omitted

  • Members
  • Posts: 292
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2010, 05:46:44 AM »
As an expeiment, I looked at the lease rates, and decided to try Russian tin on short routes, where fuel is not as much an issue.  My Tupolev Tu-204-120 is making me 553 520 USD after taking out the -122 380 USD lease rate.  I have no line, when I want an aircraft, it is bult for me almost imeadiatly.

Great, for what it's good for.

Offline Gaius Marius

  • Members
  • Posts: 339
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2010, 03:23:33 AM »
Sami's suggestion sounds the most reasonable to me.  I do agree there needs to be some USSR market advantages for operating there if you can only use those a/c.

GM
"Flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss"

Offline Name_Omitted

  • Members
  • Posts: 292
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2011, 10:58:16 PM »
Ok, I just did an experiment with Russian and Ukrainian aircraft in Modern Times 3.  I was running a successful airline out of Tiranna, Albania.  Eventually, I over leveraged and went bankrupt.

The biggest problem I had was not fuel rates, I was making decent money on each flight on each aircraft.  The biggest problem was that I needed 3 different fleet types to make a reasonable go at things.  If I had kept it down to my smaller aircraft with insane frequencies where slots allow, I would have been fine (especally if that aircraft was the AN-148).

There are few Russian aircraft that have the common line to offer as much flexibility as the 737s, MD-80 or A320 line.  I don't know that that can be overcome.

Offline Sigma

  • Members
  • Posts: 1920
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2011, 11:43:40 PM »
The current penalty you receive for expanding to 3 types is so small I doubt it's making that much of a difference in your results.  It's the 4th fleet that gets you pretty hard.  Going to 3 might take you from barely profitable to unprofitable, but it's not going to take you from successful to bankrupt.

Offline Name_Omitted

  • Members
  • Posts: 292
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2011, 11:56:41 PM »
What drove be to bankruptcy was over leveraging, full stop.  I made a dramatic mistake in game play.  That was not the point I was (poorly) trying to make.

Perhaps if I were at a larger base, it would not have been a problem, as I would have more of each aircraft type to work with (I had around 10), but the only room for me to expand would have entailed my going smaller into the (not very profitable) 35-40 px routes, which would have been the magic 4th type (going into the unproftibale sector as well).  If I were in a market that would have use for very large aircraft, I would be in the same position, unable to expand without going into the 4th aircraft type.

Were I playing with an aircraft with families, I could have done what I did with 2 types pretty easily, giving me a third to expand into.

zorbon

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2011, 05:11:13 PM »
I remember playing in Kiev using only Russian tin during one of the games.
In the same city, I was up against a guy flying 737's... in freaken USSR! :|
Needless to say, it was a game killer.

Imo, communism needs to be modeled in this game.
USSR planes should only be available to all eastern block nations and soviet aligned nations.
Purchase of Western Planes should not be allowed in eastern block.

If current game type, I'd say fuel price is 100% subsidized, in return 25% of profits are taxed with no refund.
If using the "CEO" game play I suggested before, the CCCP would actual be the "board" for the airline, 100% of your airline profits will be taxed, however quarterly depending on how well you appease the board you'll be refunded your profits as an "operational growth budget". Of course continuing subsidized some cost.

LOT767

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2011, 10:32:57 PM »
This all would be a good idea if you dump the planes before they get old, have you seen the maintance on these things after 7-8+ years.....Its like paying ferrari maintance rates for your yugo..... 1.8mil for a C check? Ha! I'd rather fly 20+ year old DC-9's in my fleet. However I do agree with keeping it real with Soviet planes during Eastern block times, one should not be able to fly western aircraft.

zorbon

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2011, 02:21:56 AM »
This all would be a good idea if you dump the planes before they get old, have you seen the maintance on these things after 7-8+ years.....Its like paying ferrari maintance rates for your yugo..... 1.8mil for a C check? Ha! I'd rather fly 20+ year old DC-9's in my fleet. However I do agree with keeping it real with Soviet planes during Eastern block times, one should not be able to fly western aircraft.

Subsidized cost is the key here, we can balance maintenance cost by being less restrictive with C and D checks AND subsidizing these cost....

On the flip side, if we subsidize too much, we can tax more, You don't make money in Soviet Russia, Soviet Russia makes you.

LOT767

  • Former member
Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2011, 04:22:26 AM »
Subsidized cost is the key here, we can balance maintenance cost by being less restrictive with C and D checks AND subsidizing these cost....

On the flip side, if we subsidize too much, we can tax more, You don't make money in Soviet Russia, Soviet Russia makes you.

LOL I am suprised it took this long for a Soviet Russia joke to make its way into this thread!

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.