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Author Topic: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive  (Read 5194 times)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« on: August 23, 2010, 02:02:35 PM »
Maybe it would be a nice move to make Soviet/Russian aircraft more interesting. I know AWS is based on real data, but all those aircraft make no sense if (nearly) nobody wants to use them.

First ideas for this are;

1) lower their price

2) add some "special offers" (not all of them, more either or);
- Every year for one month for example the goverment pays 50% of the fuel bill for the aircraft for the first two years
- pays for all the maintenance costs for four years
- pays the difference for fuel if it hits $1000 (for ATB for example)
- no insurance costs

3) like in real life you have to pay extreme high toll if you want to fly non-russian aircraft in Russia


What I have in mind with this is the saying "at the end it's a game and fun is the first target".

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2010, 02:52:43 PM »
1.  prices are much lower for these planes
2.  It is fuel pricing that is the issue.  There was a heavy Soviet subsidy for these planes.   It just hasnt been modeled in, yet.  
3.  Any changes would only apply to pre 1991.  After that, its fair game.

And dont confuse Russia with the USSR.


Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 03:43:30 PM »
I don't confuse Russia and USSR, but I'm tired of always writing the four or five major aircraft manufacturers there.

1. not enough
2. because this I brought in the idea of special offers
3. it's fair even before 1991, but it would be more fun in my opinion if you can use 100% of the available aircraft and not only 60%.

Offline Jona L.

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2010, 03:53:55 PM »
just say f#cking sowiet crap planes...

no need for making them more attractive, since they are useless, except for you being in former USSR...

Jona L.

samomuransky

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 07:08:26 PM »
This is supposed to be simulation, so aircrafts from USSR actually should be unattractive. I can only imagine third one (toll if you want to fly non-soviet aircraft in USSR), if it existed in real world. Also I can imagine that later we could have some donations for USSR-based airlines to use USSR aircrafts.

Offline Seattle

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2010, 07:30:39 PM »
I dont get why people like to hate on them! The new ones are fairly good, especially the Sukhoi's. Tu-334 and 114s are decent.

I have made large airlines with good profits using Tu-154Ms, you just need to know how to use them! Dont get them if you have high competition or your already large and plan on replacing a/c with them. Instead order lots of them to expand and then replace them with more fuel efficient a/c later on. That works really well in the late 80s to early 90s, so by the time 737NGs come out, you can order alot to replace the existing ones.

Why not use other similar sized a/c? No waiting for delivery! Super cheap leases! High seating, HD it and you get around 190 seats.

Sure it probably doesnt work during high fuel prices, but if your playing in a world with realistic fuel prices, then gas is pretty cheap throughout the late 80s and 90s. :)
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Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 08:16:09 PM »
I can only imagine third one (toll if you want to fly non-soviet aircraft in USSR), if it existed in real world.

If I'm not wrong this is why Aeroflot hasn't registrated it's western aircraft in Russia.

Also there are some differences between this simulation game and the real world, why don't add another to make them more attractive?

samomuransky

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 09:23:01 PM »
Also there are some differences between this simulation game and the real world, why don't add another to make them more attractive?

Many of those differences are there just because we need to replace regulators (that doesn't exist in game). We don't need it here. I can imagine helping to Russian aircraft by building some RW elements inside, for example, high toll on western aircrafts in Russia.

Offline raptorva

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 02:26:21 AM »
I say fuel subsidising is the best bet.
I love Soviet airliners as they are much better than western types for their roles (eg a Tu-154 can land on a short gravel strip, lets see a 727 do that). Sadly AWS is biased to more popular western airliners as people still have cold war 'fear' of the other.

Offline ArcherII

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 02:51:22 AM »
I think that the subsided fuel should be applicable (if ever) only in Russia (or URSS before), since that country's aviation industry its of the most interest for the former. Hope makes sense, not an english speaker.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 03:15:57 AM »
If I'm not wrong this is why Aeroflot hasn't registrated it's western aircraft in Russia.

Also there are some differences between this simulation game and the real world, why don't add another to make them more attractive?

This would be like adding more slots into LHR just to make it "more attractive".

Some things need to be changed in the name of being "fair" or making something a little bit more accessible than it may otherwise be for the sake of sami who needs people actually playing the game, not getting frustrated.  There's absolutely no need to go changing something for the sake of making it "cooler", like just changing a plane to make it more attractive without any regard to reality.

Offline Sami

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 07:46:17 PM »
I checked from my "source" and he said that fuel was free for local airlines, and so was everything else, but profits (if any) went to government. Prices were fixed too and there was no competition. Natural for their operation and economy..

But how would I do it here.. Let's say 50% off the fuel prices when fuelling at home country (USSR). Aircraft prices and everything remains the same. Western planes cannot be bought until it was liberated in somewhere around 1993-1995 (or then just make it the date the union collapsed for the sake of simplicity). Everything else remains the same as now..

And those western capitalist pigs cannot buy the glorious designs of Antonov, Tupolev ...etc either then. ;)

samomuransky

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 07:59:05 PM »
And those western capitalist pigs cannot buy the glorious designs of Antonov, Tupolev ...etc either then. ;)

Actually, I believe that Soviets would be more than happy to sell their aircrafts to those "western capitalist pigs" if they wanted to buy it.

Offline Sami

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 08:13:34 PM »
I believe that wasn't possible since the planes were not certified over that part of the world.. Only a local certification existed.

Offline Seattle

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 08:43:19 PM »
I believe that wasn't possible since the planes were not certified over that part of the world.. Only a local certification existed.

Im Algeria could be an exception? Many countries around the world were influenced by both American and Soviet governments..... So it is possible the nations in Africa, South America, and Asia could have access to Soviet a/c as well? :D
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coopdogyo

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 08:52:39 PM »
Maybe you should also make it so you can get planes faster. Because not many people order Russian planes their production rates are much less. So if you order 50 planes it could take longer to get the planes than if you had ordered the western plane.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 09:05:06 PM »
Im Algeria could be an exception? Many countries around the world were influenced by both American and Soviet governments..... So it is possible the nations in Africa, South America, and Asia could have access to Soviet a/c as well? :D

we could say the same about Cuba before the revolution... that is if we play a game that starts that long ago.

Offline raptorva

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 10:50:23 PM »
I like the idea of subsidised fuel costs within the USSR. Then I will join the next gameworld with this feature and bring glory to Tupolev and their (in my opinion) quite innovative designs. I am Australian and have no connection whatsoever with Russia but their aircraft fascinate me.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 11:54:51 PM »
HERE IT IS SIMPLE:

You cant play a business simulation and expect both the capitalistic and socialistic models can play against one another.

The Soviet Airlines were all state-sponsored and owned by the "people".  They may have had transactions on paper, but everything was still all fueled by the Soviet Machine one way or another.

You simply CAN NOT take Soviet made planes out of the Iron Curtain and expect them to perform on a level that is even close to par with the West.

Offline Seattle

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Re: Making Russian/Soviet aircraft more attractive
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 04:45:16 AM »
Maybe you should also make it so you can get planes faster. Because not many people order Russian planes their production rates are much less. So if you order 50 planes it could take longer to get the planes than if you had ordered the western plane.
No slow enough to compete with incredibly long lines at Airbus and Boeing. Besides, eventually you order 50 + another 50. So it 'stimulates' the line too.
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