AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: It's finally happened....  (Read 3155 times)

Offline begla

  • Members
  • Posts: 152
It's finally happened....
« on: August 13, 2010, 12:46:14 PM »
So it's finally happened, Fuel has hit $1000+  :o

What effect is the having on Airlines?
How long do you think this will last?
Will we see a huge slump soon?

Are the higher prices good? (seperating the real players from the wannabes and also leading to older aircraft to being retired)
Are the prices bad? (making a previously profitable airline bankrupt - which leads back to the previous question)

have fuel prices become rediculous? (considering the current game prices is 5 times the highest real world 2009 price)

Anyone thoughts?

thanks DS  :)


International Crew Operating: B737-800 + B757-200.

A 2 Mile Road can take you 2 Miles, but A 2 Mile Runway can take you anywhere.

Offline ArcherII

  • Members
  • Posts: 1935
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 06:37:14 PM »
I think that as long as your aircrafts are not thirsty cows you' d be alright. I've recently made a big investment in my young airline by buying two of my leased planes in order to reduce the lease expediture that was starting to beat me up. At first I feared that I might had rushed it, since growing becomes very very slow. But, nearly a month later (and coincidently with the ending of my c-check rounds) I am now cashing a million/week even with those fuel prices. And I have 18 leased planes and 2 owned (from a month ago).

So the key in my opinion is to maintain prices in a good way (not overprice much), I found that having default ticketing is the best thing. Also cutting low LF routes (I had one with 61% even after 4 months - apparently I was overstuffing my own demand), and change them to the most profitable ones.

I don't know much else to do, I currently have two fleet types. A third fleet is most certainly a suicide for my profit margin.

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3073
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2010, 10:22:38 PM »
Actually,if you do the math, fuel prices at $1000/kg is about $3/gallon, which is nowhere near what the high price in 2009 was.

In MT#1, fuel hit about 1400 before backing down, and that was tempered from the real world (the fuel costs in that game world were real life patterend, ATB is random).

Ultimatly, you will see some huge airlines fail left and right, but only if they're poorly managed.  Its easy to poorly manage airlines of a huge size as its hard to pay attention to details, but if you don't let fleet commonality get out of control and you keep an eye on your fixed costs, you should be fine.

The fuel thirstyness of the plane doesn't matter so much for short hops - so if you've got a lot of 500km or less routes, you'd probably be better off running cheap cheap cheap MD-80's.... What you will see is that long haul will become unprofitable unless you own the planes.

Offline ekaneti

  • Members
  • Posts: 844
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2010, 09:12:48 AM »
Most of my planes are Saab 2000s so I am ok. MX is killing me though. All at the same time

MunMaRu

  • Former member
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 04:59:26 PM »
I fly long hual route with Boeing 767-400ER It made me more than 800,000 USD per week even fuel price are 1,000$.

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2010, 06:39:59 AM »
I currently fly predominantly Q400's on routes mostly under 400nm so Ive got plenty of profits without much affect from fuel costs.
Sure my 737-300s and 757-300s aren't the most fuel efficient aircraft but they are still making good profits all the same.
Now all I need do is wait a while so that I can build up cash reserves and order their replacements.

BigBarron

  • Former member
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2010, 10:03:45 AM »
Well time to put on my Nomex underwear cause I am gonna pay for this but I have a question or two that seems to fit with this topic. When I log in I see that several companies have declared or forced into bankruptsy by the banks. When you expand these notices I see that they are opperating as many as 150 aircraft and are in prime locations such as Dallas, Newark,Denver and such.

 Could or more importantly would anyone be willing to explain these melt-downs to a noob player? These all seem like good gambles yet they are cratering..What Gives? I understand fuel prices are a right mother right now...but they have been near 1000 for almost 5 game months....Is there some other "company killer" out there that my noob self is unaware of and if so could someone explain it to me please?

 I know my operation wouldn't make a pimple on anything larger than a mosquito....but wow..I see this so often that it gives someone like me a concern. Any help is greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance. :-[

flydreamer

  • Former member
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2010, 10:11:27 AM »
Fleet commonality cost and/or staff salaries can be painful to several airlines...
And also staff training cost, maintenance cost, and loan payment can also cause headache to CEOs...

Offline Maarten Otto

  • Members
  • Posts: 1276
    • My photo site
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2010, 02:03:52 PM »
I have 240 aircrafts and just recently added a 6th type of AC (A380). I just tried something and surprisingly it's a big cash cow if you know how to do it.

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3073
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2010, 02:05:14 PM »
I currently fly predominantly Q400's on routes mostly under 400nm so Ive got plenty of profits without much affect from fuel costs.
Sure my 737-300s and 757-300s aren't the most fuel efficient aircraft but they are still making good profits all the same.
Now all I need do is wait a while so that I can build up cash reserves and order their replacements.

733's aren't all that bad in the grand scheme of things other than being to small to print money flying them.

753's are VERY fuel efficient for the payload that they carry. Do the math on a fuel per pax/hour and you'll see there's probably not a better plane in the game....

Well time to put on my Nomex underwear cause I am gonna pay for this but I have a question or two that seems to fit with this topic. When I log in I see that several companies have declared or forced into bankruptsy by the banks. When you expand these notices I see that they are opperating as many as 150 aircraft and are in prime locations such as Dallas, Newark,Denver and such.

 Could or more importantly would anyone be willing to explain these melt-downs to a noob player? These all seem like good gambles yet they are cratering..What Gives? I understand fuel prices are a right mother right now...but they have been near 1000 for almost 5 game months....Is there some other "company killer" out there that my noob self is unaware of and if so could someone explain it to me please?

 I know my operation wouldn't make a pimple on anything larger than a mosquito....but wow..I see this so often that it gives someone like me a concern. Any help is greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance. :-[

There's a few things in play at this stage in a game world. Players can get bored, players can get torpedoed by poor management that shows its head when fuel goes up, large airlines are increasingly hard to micromanage or they have a new upstart in their base that they don't notice is winding up to kick them between the goalposts.

So lets go through a few of the less obvious ones (no need to explain boredom):

Common management issues - too many fleet types, not enough money generated per plane, not enough money generated to cover fixed costs, auto maint was turned off and d checks were forgotten, leasing planes that cost too much money relative to their income potential....

IMHO, fuel at $1000 isn't that hard, however, if you don't know the basics of the game, it will take you out really quickly. If fuel is at $500, you can run 15 fuel types and have 50% load factors and still print money.... (exageration)

The large airlines also have to be careful to watch for upstarts that can get a toe-hold in their market. Once a small competitor has a profitable enough footprint to wage war (especially when fuel is high), that competitor can chip away at the giant by targeting the highest yield routes to try to send the big airline into a spin.

BigBarron

  • Former member
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2010, 10:50:15 PM »
First off let me thank Fly, n Maarten and schro for their responses.

 I was wondering about how a small operation would affect the larger companies and now thats explained. I tried twice before and the angry bankrupt monster gobbled me up twice and am on my final chnce now. I fly short routes with no competition on them using one type of turboprop aircraft (EMB-120ER's). I tried to open up a better route using a Boeing 735 but that was a bloodletting with pieces n parts left everywhere. So my "commomality" is 100% and my LF is averaging out at about 86% with all numbers in the green. I am making a small profit but I want to do better. My first thing is to open up a longer route with a jet of the same manufacture as my smaller planes..( Embraer )...but I am worried that that "fleet commonality" will kill anything I hope to make...is this a valid worry?? and am I just trying to bite off more than I should?

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2010, 07:06:58 AM »
if you're operating EMB-120's, I recommend sticking solely with them if you can. They are a great aircraft for regional frequency routes if used right.

Offline JumboShrimp

  • Members
  • Posts: 5992
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2010, 07:41:11 AM »
EMB-120ER is probably too small to make you any real money.  Is this ATB you are talking about?  That plane is kind of obsolete anyway.  Turbo-props that can make some decent profits are Dash-8, ATR or Saab 2000.  There are some small jets on the market in ATB that are a little more expensive to operate, but are faster and have greater range.

The advantage of EMB-120ER and picking routes that nobody is flying is that a larger competitor is most likely not going to go after you, because he may not have aircraft that is small enough to be economical on those routes.

As far as going with the same manufacturer, it will not help comonality, since all of the other Embraers have no commonality with 120ER.  You can go with any manufacturer for your 2nd aircraft type.  2 aircraft types are not really going to kill you.  Going to 3, 4 gets really expensive....

BigBarron

  • Former member
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2010, 08:49:29 AM »
Thanks Jumbo n Raptorva...many thanks for the info...I was however kinda locked into using the E-120's as where I am operating all the fields are kinda short...aka under 900m so I had to find a plane that would take off under that and...lol...the E-120 was there..otherwise I would have probably chosen the Saab 2000....since I am relegated to a regional role..its not too bad..I can usually make around 750k to 1 mill a month profit. Not anything like the big hitters...but I am using this opportunity to learn even more than in the begginner game. Again many thanks for the info and I am trying to learn and apply everything you guys tell me...

Offline Maarten Otto

  • Members
  • Posts: 1276
    • My photo site
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2010, 07:00:33 PM »
900 miles for the EMB120's? No way mate. You NEED at least 10 take off's a day to operate them at a profit. With 900NM routes you can make 4 take offs a day at most. Besides, I won't use it as these planes are in HD and  you can operate flihts up to 2 hours at most before pax will start moaning.

You can run a profitable airline with them of up to 45 to 50 Aircrafts before overhead kills your airline. But be aware that running an all 120's airliner does require a lot of AWS skills.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 07:20:22 PM by Maarten Otto »

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2010, 01:43:11 PM »
Is there a bathroom on an EMB 120? 

If you put me on one of those for 4 hours in an HD seat with no potty, and I will snap.

Offline bleedfax18

  • Members
  • Posts: 183
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2010, 08:31:49 PM »
He's talking about 900m, not nm, and therefore referring to runway length. No way that you could be profitable with EMB 120s on such long routes.
CEO of INterFly

Offline Seattle

  • Members
  • Posts: 2791
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2010, 04:19:11 AM »
I seem to be doing okay... no longer making those profits over 30 million.... but between 10-25 million. I finally got rid of the last of my DC-9s..... MY oldest one was 35.6 years old... :P

Replacing my 10 yr. old ATR-500s with -600s.... Slightly better fuel burn and range..... but totally no point. I guess I didnt want to wait for them to get old. Starting to buy the leases on my 737s.

Any good planes to replace MD-11s with?
Founder of the Star Alliance!

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3073
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2010, 10:50:50 PM »
I seem to be doing okay... no longer making those profits over 30 million.... but between 10-25 million. I finally got rid of the last of my DC-9s..... MY oldest one was 35.6 years old... :P

Replacing my 10 yr. old ATR-500s with -600s.... Slightly better fuel burn and range..... but totally no point. I guess I didnt want to wait for them to get old. Starting to buy the leases on my 737s.

Any good planes to replace MD-11s with?

Its a shame there's a set retirement age since when the last A320 is flown to the desert to be scrapped, the pilots shall ride home on a DC-9...

And the pilots of the last DC-9 will catch a ride home on a DC-3...

Offline Seattle

  • Members
  • Posts: 2791
Re: It's finally happened....
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2010, 11:23:09 PM »
Lol! I agree. I wouldve kept some of those DC-9s just for fun  ;D
Founder of the Star Alliance!

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.