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Author Topic: Rotating (reserve) aircraft  (Read 1906 times)

munipandita

  • Former member
Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« on: July 27, 2010, 01:25:09 PM »
Hi dudes.

Well, every company, and mostly those with big fleets, have the maintenance problem..

Every week aircrafts go to C-Checks, and they stay 3 weeks on the ground, not making money.

For example, I have 5 AC on C Check, and 4 coming within 10 days..

So, i had an idea. I don't know if anyone already uses this idea, and i am trying it for the first time and don't know if it will work, but, in theory, it should work.

I got 4 aircrafts from the used market, and, when an aircraft enters C Check, i transfer the schedule of this aircraft to the reserve one. So, the route will be still flying, and you don't lose money with a grounded aircraft.

You will have the aircraft grounded anyway, but, with this 'system', this aircraft will still be flying, generating profit.

When the C-Check ends, you transfer back the schedule to the original aircraft.. or leave it as reserve, your choice. And then another aircraft is coming to C Check, you transfer again.. and it'll be always like that.. aircraft in C Check and reserve AC flying ;)

Offline NorgeFly

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 02:02:21 PM »
I have used this system in the past but mainly for D checks as they take much longer and thus there is a lot more revenue at stake. To prevent having too many D checks at once, I try and have one or two aircraft spare and then start sending the aircraft for D check early (by up to one or two years) to spread them out and use the spare aircraft to cover their schedules.

It's most effective if you can get online every day as there is no way to automate the process currently.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 02:05:21 PM »
Too much micromanagement... Especially when you have more than 200 aircraft.

munipandita

  • Former member
Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2010, 02:19:24 PM »
Too much micromanagement... Especially when you have more than 200 aircraft.

This is exactly the problem.. When you have lots of aircrafts, lots of them go to C Checks at once.

I have 115 aircrafts, and only this month i have 10 aircrafts coming to check

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 08:03:42 AM »
Too much micromanagement... Especially when you have more than 200 aircraft.
Exactly, nice if you have a fleet of 50 or so of the same type. Not if you have 227 aircrafts.

A solution for this could be a "maintenance planner" just get that additional AC and slot the others for maintenance. During this maintenance periode the standby AC will automatically fly the route. The maintenance planner can be slotted for 1 year in advance so you have plenty of time to smoothen things up.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 08:06:43 AM by Maarten Otto »

Riger

  • Former member
Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 05:20:45 PM »
A few things..

When I hit 200+ aircraft in a previous game, they just went in and out of C checks so often, I just didn't give a darn.

However .....

If there was a C/D check planner (talked about a few times in the past), I'd readily set up a rotation, buy my own aircraft and keep them through the D checks.  It makes sense.

The one thing that really upset me though, is the 1000's of staff I employ and between the lot of them, I don't have one that can do this planning for me !!!  ;)

Best Regards
Richard

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 08:02:16 PM »
The one thing that really upset me though, is the 1000's of staff I employ and between the lot of them, I don't have one that can do this planning for me !!!  ;)

I have 838 people employed in route strategies department, and I am doing all the work...  ;)

Offline Sigma

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 08:22:45 PM »
I have 838 people employed in route strategies department, and I am doing all the work...  ;)

No, you're just choosing which route to open with the information they present to you, the exact thing a CEO would do in real-life too.

Those invisible people are the ones that create the demand charts that you look at, that rank the airports in order of the importance you ascribe, etc, etc, etc.  All that information isn't created magically (well, it is, as far as we're concerned).  All your little minions are who do it for you.  You just look at it all, do with it what you will, and decide which route to open up.

Now whether you need 800 of them or not is a different question... considering that the 3 or 4 you start the game with did just fine presenting the same data to you.  Of course the reason you have "800" of them is because your employee numbers are nothing more than a percentage distribution that sami invented anyway.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2010, 09:03:05 PM »
No, you're just choosing which route to open with the information they present to you, the exact thing a CEO would do in real-life too.

Those invisible people are the ones that create the demand charts that you look at, that rank the airports in order of the importance you ascribe, etc, etc, etc.

That brings up something.  I am not sure I am hallucinating, but I seem to recall that at one point, when I was getting the demand reports, I used to get them with accuracy of ~97%.  Subsequent to that, I opened and closed a base, fired a bunch of staff, their loyalty went down, and the accuracy of the report dropped to 80s.  Since them, the morale of employees is back up, but the accuracy of the estimate does not go above ~95%.  Is ~95% as high as it can go?

Also, IMO, when not flying the route, I think the estimate should have lower accuracy.  When flying the route, the estimate accuracy should be higher.

Now whether you need 800 of them or not is a different question... considering that the 3 or 4 you start the game with did just fine presenting the same data to you.  Of course the reason you have "800" of them is because your employee numbers are nothing more than a percentage distribution that sami invented anyway.

That's fine that some of the cost get automatically assigned to whatever categories Sami makes up.  One piece of information I would like to have is what causes increase in what category.

For example, getting a plane and using it on one route causes 10x pilots per pilot position to be hired and something similar with cabin crew.  Curse actually told me that in another thread, that it is not delivery of aircraft, but using it on first route that causes the staff to be hired.  Having the plane fly 1 route, or fly non-stop minus A/B/C/D checks keeps the flight staff emplyed constant.

I am fine with how it is done, but it would be great if this information was available to players, either in manual or some guide at some point....

With pilots and cabin crew figured out, I would like to know what in particular makes the other staff (or expense) categories go up.

For example:
- flying 1 route with 2 smaller planes vs. 1 larger plane.
- flying 1 flight to a destination - what it increases
- flying 2nd identical flight to the same destination - what it increases
- flying 3rd flight from Hub #2 to the same destination (ignoring the Hub #2 startup costs, just incremental cost)

I am curious at which point (if ever) you get some economies of scale.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 01:20:58 AM »
That brings up something.  I am not sure I am hallucinating, but I seem to recall that at one point, when I was getting the demand reports, I used to get them with accuracy of ~97%.  Subsequent to that, I opened and closed a base, fired a bunch of staff, their loyalty went down, and the accuracy of the report dropped to 80s.  Since them, the morale of employees is back up, but the accuracy of the estimate does not go above ~95%.  Is ~95% as high as it can go?

Yeah, ~95% is it's peak.   It's a function of their efficiency which is a function of their numbers and morale.  It starts the game in the '80s I think when your morale is ~60.


Quote
That's fine that some of the cost get automatically assigned to whatever categories Sami makes up.  One piece of information I would like to have is what causes increase in what category.

It's a lot.... simpler than you probably think it is.

And I think you'd be more than a little disillusioned at best.

Here's just an example...

Opened a new route with a single flight for a new plane -- hired 234 people of all types.
Opened a 2nd route also with a single flight scheduled for the same plane -- hired just 20 people (10 in customer service, 10 in Maintenance, that's it)

It's all based off aggregate numbers.  YY plane requires XX people to support, those XX people are then divided out amongst the various crafts.  New routes on existing planes only require incrementally ZZ people, those are divided out through some other function.

In the end you have virtually no control over it.


Quote
For example, getting a plane and using it on one route causes 10x pilots per pilot position to be hired and something similar with cabin crew.  Curse actually told me that in another thread, that it is not delivery of aircraft, but using it on first route that causes the staff to be hired.  Having the plane fly 1 route, or fly non-stop minus A/B/C/D checks keeps the flight staff emplyed constant.

This is true, I often buy lots of planes and don't have to worry about a dime to support them because, with the exception of C/D checks, there are zero costs to acquiring and holding a plane.  It's only the second a route is applied that matters.  And once you apply a single route, you've employed all the direct labor and almost all the indirect labor (as noted above with the tiny incremental labor costs to adding a new route to existing plane) that plane will ever require.

Quote
With pilots and cabin crew figured out, I would like to know what in particular makes the other staff (or expense) categories go up.

For example:
- flying 1 route with 2 smaller planes vs. 1 larger plane.
- flying 1 flight to a destination - what it increases
- flying 2nd identical flight to the same destination - what it increases
- flying 3rd flight from Hub #2 to the same destination (ignoring the Hub #2 startup costs, just incremental cost)

Go ahead and try it.  It only takes a few minutes to check out the scenarios.  I've done it, but since I'm not at home and not tunnelling through my home PC today, I can't quote extensive figures on it aside from that it's not what you'd expect.

Quote
I am curious at which point (if ever) you get some economies of scale.
You don't.  You do on an individual plane level (more flights per plane), but that's it.  It's not like your 100th route takes less people to open than your 10th one.

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Rotating (reserve) aircraft
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2010, 02:01:31 AM »
Yeah, ~95% is it's peak.   It's a function of their efficiency which is a function of their numbers and morale.  It starts the game in the '80s I think when your morale is ~60.

Ok, I must have been drinking something when I tought I saw > 95%  ;)

One of the enhancement at some point might be, as I suggested, the estimate to be lower when you (or anybody else) is flying that route, and higher (or the current 95%) when you have the staff with good morale AND you are flying that route.

It's a lot.... simpler than you probably think it is.

And I think you'd be more than a little disillusioned at best.

Here's just an example...

Opened a new route with a single flight for a new plane -- hired 234 people of all types.
Opened a 2nd route also with a single flight scheduled for the same plane -- hired just 20 people (10 in customer service, 10 in Maintenance, that's it)

It's all based off aggregate numbers.  YY plane requires XX people to support, those XX people are then divided out amongst the various crafts.  New routes on existing planes only require incrementally ZZ people, those are divided out through some other function.

In the end you have virtually no control over it.

Not disillusioned at all.  It is a sim (and a great one) and a work in progress.  I just like to know what it is, whether I am missing something.

An area for enhancement would be to bring more real life info into this.  For example, you are flying one flight to airport A.  That should cause a bigger jump in staff required than flying 2nd, 3rd, 4th flight to the same airport.

There is a huge start-up cost and additional staffing cost to open a 2nd hub.  But, if first flight to Airport A had disproportionately higher cost than 2nd flight, etc.  Also, flying to Airport A from 2nd, 3rd, 4th base should be cheaper than first flight to Airport A from original hub.  This sort of economy of scale could partially offset the cost of opening new hubs, but it would take some time (adding a bunch of flights) to actually realize these economies of scale.

This is true, I often buy lots of planes and don't have to worry about a dime to support them because, with the exception of C/D checks, there are zero costs to acquiring and holding a plane.  It's only the second a route is applied that matters.  And once you apply a single route, you've employed all the direct labor and almost all the indirect labor (as noted above with the tiny incremental labor costs to adding a new route to existing plane) that plane will ever require.

Go ahead and try it.  It only takes a few minutes to check out the scenarios.  I've done it, but since I'm not at home and not tunnelling through my home PC today, I can't quote extensive figures on it aside from that it's not what you'd expect.
You don't.  You do on an individual plane level (more flights per plane), but that's it.  It's not like your 100th route takes less people to open than your 10th one.

Ok, it is good to know that the economies are really only on good scheduling of planes, keeping them as busy as possible.

 

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