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Author Topic: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"  (Read 3916 times)

N101PA

  • Former member
Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« on: July 26, 2010, 03:54:07 AM »
Let me start off by saying hello to all you fellow airwaysimmers. =)

The seemingly age old question of Airbus vs. Boeing now has somewhat of an answer. I want to remind you all that this is out of my own research and may not be 100% accurate. I also cannot account for differences in how an aircraft is operated between different carriers, this is as generic as it gets. One other side note, all aircraft are presented in configurations capable of 2000nm and all are represented with new pricing. Aircraft age, condition, and price greatly affect the cost of the aircraft, but you can find deals and lower the cost of operation even below levels of a new aircraft. Hopefully some of you might be able to decide after reading some of this.

120-130 Seat Aircraft

In the 120-130 seat range, in standard seating configuration, the A319-100 edges out the competition because of its relatively low fuel burn rate and maintenance costs. With the CFM56-5A +6.0tn MTOW, it will burn 2200kg/hr of fuel at 450kts and travel 2460nm. This package new will cost $827790/month. Together with maintainance costs it comes out to $37013.91/day. The 737-300 will cost $35656.95/day, but also burns 200kg/hr more fuel and flies 26kts slower leading to the slight edge for the A319. Obviously the shorter the route the less significant the costs become.

In overall cost to operate, the A318 takes the cake at $34102.18/day, 2020kg/hr fuel burn and 2460nm range with the PW6122A +9.0tn MTOW. Of you plan on adding some C-class seats or a high-density configuration, especially at longer ranges, the A318 may be the best aircraft for the job.

The 737-700 seems to have priced itself out of the market at $39892.37/day.

150-165 Seat Aircraft

Now to the 150-165 seat range, the B737-400 is the cheapest to operate under a lease. With the CFM56-3B2 +1.8tn MTOW, the B734 burns 2830kg/hr of fuel at 424kts for 2000nm, all at a daily cost of $37059.10. It is also the cheapest aircraft in this size category to operate overall.

For those of you directly purchasing one of these 150-165 seaters, the A320-200 with CFM56-5B4's, Standard, is the cheapest to operate maintenance-wise at $10517.64/day. The fuel burn is only 2390kg/hr, it flies at 450kts for 2330nm.

Again the 737NG did not fair too well, the 737-800 costs $43,592.97/day to operate and more than $11500.00/day in maintenance costs alone.

Hope this helps =)

N101PA "Papa Alpha"

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 07:28:28 AM »
Just to note, pricing is dynamic based on demand, so the price relationship between these aircraft types may change and is not necessarily the same in other game worlds.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2010, 07:40:38 AM »
At the aircraft release to a specific time it is the same, not?


ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2010, 07:52:55 AM »
As I understand it, on launch day, with no orders placed, the price of an aircraft type should be the same ( corrected for inflation as launch dates vary).  But from that point on price can vary significantly based on orders.  As the backlog increases price will as well.  If there is a shortage of orders, price decreases.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2010, 08:06:44 AM »
Ah, ok, that's right, but B737 and A320 are always sold out for years  ;)

What also is not included in this list - fleet commonality. I can fly B737NG intercontinental, a B737classic can't do this.

However, interesting list and the result is similar to the results I had in my excel list during Euro Challenge, so thanks a lot, N101PA!

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2010, 12:03:54 PM »
Is the 737 ng series ETOPS rated to fly across oceans?

N101PA

  • Former member
Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2010, 12:10:25 PM »
Thanks for the replies!

I probably should have noted that this was based on current ATB prices and not meant to be reflective of other game worlds. Also, in terms of fleet commonality, yes a B737NG has signifigantly more range when so equipped than other comparable aircraft currently in production. In the end it comes down to the needs of the customer ordering said aircraft.

I have also noticed that the more aircraft that use a particular engine, the more the price goes up for that engine/aircraft package. It must have something to do with fleet commonality. Right now it seems that the CFM56 family is the most in demand, the performance value of this engine is not as good as some of its counterparts yet still costs more. I would imagine if you could get your hands on other aircraft with CFM engines you would end up paying less overall in fleet commonality. This definetely is a game of patience, skill, and discipline.

I'm still figuring all of this out, let alone how to run a successful airline, so bear with me.

- N101PA

N101PA

  • Former member
Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2010, 12:39:38 PM »
Is the 737 ng series ETOPS rated to fly across oceans?

The 737NG is approved for ETOPS 180 by the FAA
source: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/1999/news_release_990914a.html

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2010, 06:00:18 PM »
Is the 737 ng series ETOPS rated to fly across oceans?

In AWS it is ETOPS rated for as-long-as-you-run-out-of-fuel.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2010, 06:44:25 PM »
Wow, so is there an airline that uses the 736-9 on any intercontinental flight?

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2010, 07:09:02 PM »
A WorldLink airline based in Scandinavia and run bei NorgeFly uses B737-700 and B737-700ER for intercontinental flights. Maybe he will say himself something to profitability or you can PM him about, for myself I'm not going to give further informations on this.

Offline NorgeFly

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2010, 07:58:12 PM »
A WorldLink airline based in Scandinavia and run bei NorgeFly uses B737-700 and B737-700ER for intercontinental flights. Maybe he will say himself something to profitability or you can PM him about, for myself I'm not going to give further informations on this.

They do OK but will never be huge money makers on long haul flights. I tried it as an experiment and was pleasantly surprised. But it wouldn't work with leased aircraft... they need to be purchased to make it worthwhile.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2010, 08:44:46 PM »
I really should have asked the question as to whether someone does it in real life.

Offline NorgeFly

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2010, 08:57:55 PM »
I really should have asked the question as to whether someone does it in real life.

I know a couple of examples...

Privatair operated them (not sure if they still do) from AMS to IAH for KLM and I think they operated for Lufthansa trans-Atlantic too (in all business class config if I remember rightly). Also, at some point before they went bust, Globespan operated from Liverpool and Knock to New York with 737-700s as well as a few other routes too I think.

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2010, 09:46:23 PM »
Can't imagine that anyone can turn that into a profit.

But same goes up for A380 I think. Nice to have, but like the Concorde it's just prestige.

However I still think esyJet might lease one or two and start cheap flights from London to the USA with them. Sounds weird? I don't think so. If you can transport 600 in decent Y seats I think you can fill your aircraft fast, especially with all EZY connecting flights to and from Gatwick.

Little sum:

Do 600 x 250 (one way) = 150.000 x 2= 300.000 x 30 = 9.000.000 (nine million). I think it is a matter of time before they do. ;)

easyJet 747


easyJet A380
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:53:17 PM by Maarten Otto »

Offline ukatlantic

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2010, 07:58:46 PM »
BA have an A319 flying LCY to JFK via SNN and I believe it is direct back JFK - LCY.  It's configured with a business class only suite which I believe holds 32 pax.  The reason for the stop over at SNN is so its pax can clear US Customs. 

Offline schro

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Re: Airbus vs. Boeing "cheatsheet"
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2010, 11:08:44 PM »
BA have an A319 flying LCY to JFK via SNN and I believe it is direct back JFK - LCY.  It's configured with a business class only suite which I believe holds 32 pax.  The reason for the stop over at SNN is so its pax can clear US Customs.  

Its actually an A318.  The SNN stop is also for fuel based on the short runway at LCY (lowers the MTOW) and for the winter jet stream (the 318 can't make it on a full tank in the winter even if it could take off from LCY).

The customs clearance is just the advertised "benefit" to the passengers while the plane gets a tank of gas...

 

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