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Author Topic: Different Passenger Types  (Read 2014 times)

Glob-Al

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Different Passenger Types
« on: July 25, 2010, 10:57:14 PM »
I've only recently started playing, but one thing that I think would make the game much better (by creating the possibilities for better competition) would be to break down passenger demand on each route by the type of passenger looking to fly.

This would probably tie in best with some sort of city demand based system as discussed elsewhere, because then the passengers could take in to account things like airport distance and whether flights were direct or connecting. But either way, here's how I'd do it... I'd split demand in to six groups.

Leisure $ - Backpackers and others looking for a very cheap getaway. They are willing to travel a long way to an airport and/or change flights (if feature added), plus they'll endure older aircraft with less comfortable seats if it means their flight can be cheap.
Leisure $$ - Mainly family travellers, still looking for cheapish economy tickets, but not willing to travel quite so far to board a plane and how comfortable the economy seats are/what on-board service is provided (if that's added in at some point) will also be a factor.
Leisure $$$ - Rich leisure travellers, who despite the fact they're going on holiday would like to fly business class (or premium economy if it's added), and are looking for convenience and comfort.

Business $ - Businessmen looking for a cheap deal. Have similar demands to Leisure $$ passengers, but perhaps slightly more fussy about flight days/times.
Business $$ - Businessmen looking for good quality business class travel. Don't want to have to travel too far to the airport, but would prefer a direct flight if possible. They fly a lot and so know about planes, and will turn their nose up at older aircraft somewhat. They're still mindful of price though, and will scan the different airlines for the best business class deals.
Business $$$ - CEOs and the like who want an airport on their doorstep and a first-class ticket in their hand. The sky is the limit price wise... if you can provide the right service at the time they want.

Then for each route you could show how passenger demand broke down by type. So for example currently in the Beginners gameworld I'm in demand for LHR-JFK is about 3000/day. This might break down as L$ 800, L$$ 1000, L$$$ 100, B$ 500, B$$ 500, B$$$ 100, so with a reasonably large number of business class passengers but the majority still looking for cheapish economy tickets. However, flights from London to the Spanish coast would see a much smaller percentage of business class travellers in all areas, whilst the majority would want cheap economy tickets in the L$ and L$$ categories.

What this system would allow is for different airlines to appeal to different sub-markets on the same route. So one airline might try to offer a very cheap service, whilst another would go for all business class and others in between. In my opinion it would add an extra dimension to gameplay - and this is about the most straightforward way i could think of to do it!

Apologies if a similar thread exists somewhere - I couldn't see one but that may just be because I haven't got the hang of the search feature yet  :P

Offline Maarten Otto

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2010, 09:10:10 PM »
Yes it has been discussed elsewhere. But that's okay. It's always good to know the demand for better game features is alive.

Besides that... I am 100% sure the demand for Heathrow to JFK is at least twice the number you suggest. But the Leisure $ passenger would prefer LCC, which in the current game engine is a guarantee for Bankruptcy. So there is more to be changed before this feature can be implemented. People have asked many times to have more classes in aircraft's (like 6 fare structures per flight)

Now we only have Y,C and F. You can have all three in one plane. But a lot of us would like to see Y, Y+, C, C+, F, F+.
I would love to have a High Density seating in my 737 for ten rows and normal Y class in the rest of the aircraft. Those ten rows can be sold at dump fares for a new type of pax (yes a fourth type) which will start to emerge in the game around the early 90's. Dedicated LCC customers. They don't want to fly to LHR. Stansted and Luton will just be fine. Amsterdam is okay, but from 2013 a lot of the demand will shift towards Amsterdam Lelystad airport as this will be the second airport to serve Amsterdam (today it has general aviation only). Releasing slots at Amsterdam Schiphol, but pax will have to travel to the city by train (50 minutes), so only LCC pax will use this airport. A good feature though is hat the connection to the northern part of The Netherlands is superb, so it might easily replace "Groningen" EHGG.

But +1 for a more dynamic pax.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 09:14:04 PM by Maarten Otto »

juanchopancho

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 10:15:51 AM »
+1 here as well. It would make the game much more interesting with a more robust passenger demand model.

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2011, 02:01:18 PM »
I know this is a bump but Glob-Al recently linked to this post.

I have read it and I really like the idea, it also ties in with some discussion for a 4th class of pax looking to fly on LCCs.

It is another added dynamic to the game and a good change to the demand system, especially in conjunction, say, with city based demand.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

forsberc

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 01:10:31 AM »
+1 I like the idea. I haven't thought about how exactly to do it, but a more complex demand engine would help new airlines in a mature game world.

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 02:31:34 AM »
The problem is how do you determine who shows up at what airports for what flights?  There are millions of route combinations in AWS and even then most of the demand figures are rough approximations (there is demand for flights that don't exist in the real world and vice versa).  I like the idea, but it would generate a LOT of work in regards to hard data needed for such a complex outlay.

Offline EYguy

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 05:39:21 AM »
The problem is how do you determine who shows up at what airports for what flights?  There are millions of route combinations in AWS and even then most of the demand figures are rough approximations (there is demand for flights that don't exist in the real world and vice versa).  I like the idea, but it would generate a LOT of work in regards to hard data needed for such a complex outlay.

I agree with Lemonbutt... In Europe we all know those Low Cost Airports but what about the rest of the world?
Probably a 4th class of pax for LCC would be the best solution and sami would "just" create a parallel demand model for apo in godforsaken places with pax willing to travel to other godforsaken places for a few bucks. Thus it shouldn't be a big issue for player operating full fare airlines but it would be still a mess to program! :)

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 11:06:07 AM »
Well the beautiful thing is that with city based demand, any airport could be low cost if that type of airline sets up there. There are so many people wanting to fly LCC between two cities or areas (along with the other classes) and they don't really care which airport in their catchment they use so long as it gets them to their destination. So we don't have to pinpoint the LCC airports because, for example, Stansted and Luton could become the premium airports in one game world, say if an LCC sets up in Heathrow or Gatwick.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline EYguy

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 12:37:38 PM »
Well the beautiful thing is that with city based demand, any airport could be low cost if that type of airline sets up there. There are so many people wanting to fly LCC between two cities or areas (along with the other classes) and they don't really care which airport in their catchment they use so long as it gets them to their destination. So we don't have to pinpoint the LCC airports because, for example, Stansted and Luton could become the premium airports in one game world, say if an LCC sets up in Heathrow or Gatwick.

Yeah, right, but Stansted and Luton are LCC airport because they're quite far from London compared to LHR-LGW-LCY... It's like BGY in Milan: it handles even some sched traffic but it's LCC because it's far far away! ;) Malpensa is open to LCC because it's far and after AZ dehubbed that apo there's plenty of space that Easyjet and Air Berlin used to establish their bases, but other than those LCC, no other LC traffic...

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Different Passenger Types
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 12:50:16 PM »
I agree with Lemonbutt... In Europe we all know those Low Cost Airports but what about the rest of the world?
Probably a 4th class of pax for LCC would be the best solution and sami would "just" create a parallel demand model for apo in godforsaken places with pax willing to travel to other godforsaken places for a few bucks. Thus it shouldn't be a big issue for player operating full fare airlines but it would be still a mess to program! :)

Perhaps if there are "business plans" in place for, say, 4 business models: Legacy (big boys), Regional (small jets/props), Low Cost (point to point/focus cities), Taxi (<20 seaters) there could be 4 pax pools for every flight that is simply derived from the existing demand model based on aggregate demand.  Flights with <100 pax (in modern scenarios) would give Legacy carriers 0 pax/day and give the regional guys all the demand.  Low cost carriers would compete with the Legacy carriers, but obviously get a rather generous boost in image/demand due to being low cost (and should not be allowed to get aircraft over 200 seats).  The Taxi service would be for flights with 40 pax or less (Cessna service to small airports).  This would open things up a bit more and allow people who want to fly their bush airlines in Australia or Alaska a chance to do so profitably without being flooded out by the big boys.  There would have to be additional coding to only allow Legacy carriers 3 hubs, regionals ~3 hubs, low cost airlines with ~10 focus cities where flights can originate, and the taxi service nearly unlimited basing abilities.

 

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