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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...  (Read 2285 times)

L1011fan

  • Former member
Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« on: July 02, 2010, 07:48:16 PM »
in the red with money. Fuel prices up and down constantly (not unexpected). Nothing to be had in the used aircraft stockpile besides C-46's and DC-3's (worthy aircraft but I'd like to hold on to my current airline (Mid-Continent/ORD). Suggestions, or experiences with this? I still have 6 days real time to bring it up. Would love to hear from all who have been through similar experiences and saved their airline just when you thought there was no hope! :'(

Offline CVACEO

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  • Posts: 601
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 07:52:14 PM »
What's causing you to be in the red?  You need to identify that before you can take corrective action (and before anyone can give you solid advice). 

altmants

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 08:04:49 PM »
Just by looking there are couple reasons.

First, you have 4 fleet types already.

Second, you are located where JumpoShrimp Airline is at. He is current in the world's top 5 airlines based on operating revenue.

You do have 727-100 on the way(which is good), HOWEVER that would make you at 5 fleet types so early in the game.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010, 08:08:52 PM »
So I started at the same time as Jumbo Shrimp, but it seems the fleet compliment is too mixed. Thats the only thing I can I identify. I don't know if sporadic fuel prices have much to do with it. I think what I'm going to have to do is go on a "wing and prayer" and try to make it work. I was overeager as usual. :-[

Offline CVACEO

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010, 08:22:01 PM »
So I started at the same time as Jumbo Shrimp, but it seems the fleet compliment is too mixed. Thats the only thing I can I identify. I don't know if sporadic fuel prices have much to do with it. I think what I'm going to have to do is go on a "wing and prayer" and try to make it work. I was overeager as usual. :-[

Fleet commonality is key.  This can't be overstated.  AWS models the effect of poor fleet commonality by compounding maintenance costs.  Operating fleet type "A" alone will cost you "X" number of dollars. but add those other fleet types and the cost of maintaining fleet type "A" can double - even if you haven't added any new aircraft to that fleet.

This subject has been beaten into the ground but still people don't seem to understand the importance of fleet commonality.  Unless your airline is making lots of profits that allow you to absorb the losses of poor fleet commonality it will bankrupt you - plain and simple.


Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010, 08:26:21 PM »
I think the key at this stage of the game is getting lucky on the used a/c market.  Kind of sad but true.  Get anything worthwile that can fly and generate revenue.  A lot of airlines are like Noah's Arc, with a couple of each airplane that's out there.  But, IMO, a good idea not to sign long term leases on the a/c that you don't want to keep in the long run.

Once some of the new a/c arrives, the fleet can be reduced as leases expire - in order to improve commonality.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2010, 12:50:41 AM »
Thanks everyone!!! Saw the writing on the wall and started over at CLE. Enough room for 2 carriers. I have 2 Convairs for now. How long shall I wait before placing an order for a jet or two? Someone had mentioned the fact that I did it too soon before. :)

Offline Sigma

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2010, 12:54:00 AM »
Always order planes as soon as you can.

The key is to control WHICH planes you order.  Stick to no more than 3 total types of plane and you'll be fine.

Online raptorva

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2010, 01:03:19 AM »
I ordered two Tu-124's at the start of the game and took from the used market 4 Il-14P aircraft and didnt pay off any of my loan (other than weekly payments) and I'm doing alright

Offline JumboShrimp

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2010, 04:47:48 AM »
I think it is a good idea to first establish some profitable routes first using used a/c.  Then, as the money comes in from those routes, keep some in reserve to be able to lease additional used a/c if it showes up.  I keep enough cash on hand to be able to buy 1 or 2 used a/c.  Whatever is extra, used that to lease new a/c.  This way, you can still grow a bit while you wait.

Online raptorva

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2010, 05:16:30 AM »
The most important thing; DON'T EXPAND TOO QUICKLY!

Don't just lease every type of plane you can lay your hands on, choose one type and stick to it.
Same with routes, only start with 1-2 if possible and let your RI and CI rise before grabbing more aircraft and routes.
I've noticed many here try to expand too quickly, not content with being successful but only out for being giant.
PATIENCE is what you need in a game like this. It takes time to get profitable.

Too many lack this patience and that's the spam you see in the Airline News page...

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2010, 01:39:41 AM »
Thank you all! Doing ok now. All your help was great!!! :)

Offline bdnascar3

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2010, 08:58:23 PM »
Ok I do have a question or two  :). What is CI and RI? How do you combat when another airline floods one of your markets. Lowering the fare didn't seem to hep although adding even more flights did.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2010, 10:58:00 PM »
Ok I do have a question or two  :). What is CI and RI? How do you combat when another airline floods one of your markets. Lowering the fare didn't seem to hep although adding even more flights did.

CI -- Company Image.  This is how well people know and feel about your company.  The higher the value, the more "name-recognition" you've got, therefore, given the choice, people will fly with the name they recognize and trust versus a lower one.  You always want to have the highest CI you can have.  You get more CI with more General Campaigns, the more money you spend the higher your CI goes.

RI -- Route Image.  This is how well people know about the service you provide on a given route.  People might know all about you providing a service but not care for your reputation, or they might know all about your airline but just don't  know you provide service on a route they want to fly.  RI can be paid for via Route-Specific Campaigns but don't do it.  You will always get to an RI of 100 on a route simply by flying it regularly. 

RI is important, but CI is FAR more important than RI.  Always shoot for the highest CI you can afford to pay for.

As for combating an airline -- good luck.  If they're much larger than you, it's virtually impossible as they have the cashflow to sustain losses on your routes.  Demand isn't particularly price elastic in this game, so changing your pricing will only give you a relatively modest increase in your passengers, and the lower margins you take make it untenable in the long-term.  Frequency is the absolute best way to combat people in this game.  Fly more regularly and passengers will greatly prefer your service even at much higher pricing.

altmants

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2010, 11:32:39 PM »
"Frequency is the absolute best way to combat people in this game.  Fly more regularly and passengers will greatly prefer your service even at much higher pricing."


Well said......That is the key!

That is why for short haul, it is better using smaller planes and running higher frequency over larger plane with 1 daily flight.

HOWEVER, in congested airports, slots are hard to find and that's why larger aircraft are used. (AKA, London)


L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 07:07:50 PM »
"Frequency is the absolute best way to combat people in this game.  Fly more regularly and passengers will greatly prefer your service even at much higher pricing."


Well said......That is the key!

That is why for short haul, it is better using smaller planes and running higher frequency over larger plane with 1 daily flight.

HOWEVER, in congested airports, slots are hard to find and that's why larger aircraft are used. (AKA, London)



Yes This is what I've found. If you look at my airline (Northern Sun) at CLE, this is what I've done. I have a DC-9-30 coming next month (game time) for which I will use in the northeast and move a prop to my two southern routes thereby increasing frequency on those. This is also a game of extreme patience too, am I right?
Again thanks to all! :)

Genesis803

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 01:32:23 AM »
This game requires too much patience. It is to the point of being boring. Nothing is moving on the used ac market.  >:(

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 02:39:16 AM »
This game requires too much patience. It is to the point of being boring. Nothing is moving on the used ac market.  >:(

You got to click to refresh the used market frequently. Patience is actually not so vital here (at this moment in Jet Age) because amount of slots available are limited and most of the planes can't carry many passenger. As long as you can get some useful used aircraft, you can expand whatever speed you want.

Refresh the page once every 30 minutes game time and wait for it, you'll get nice plane. I manage to maintain a nice fleet of Convair and DC6 at the beginning and they make me earn money quiet easily until I almost conquer all the slots at my base. I still got plenty of unserved demand but no available slots. I believe this happen to other airports also. So, try to grab some slots before your competitor steal it all (meaning don't be too patient to expand). ;)

Online raptorva

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  • Posts: 412
Re: Ok so you think you're close to bankruptcy...
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 02:49:51 AM »
This may be a game but as it says in the name, it is a simulation.
Airlines in the real world don't just suddenly start one day and the next have hundreds of planes on order and a route network spanning the globe. Granted many like this tactic but I much prefer playing AWS in a realistic fashion. Hence my airline is only small and I only check for performance. My aim is to have a successful airline, not a big airline.
In this game, funding and slots are alot easier to get in real life, plus in AWS you have no such legal issues and laws that you have to abide by other than maintenance. Real airlines take time to develop, many of today's big carriers started out before WWII and they have had plenty of time to mature and expand.
Patience is required for this game to be successful, managing a business isn't an action game.

 

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