With all due respect but I only see you arguing for change. But no reasons.
Erm, I'm not arguing for change at all
. I'm arguing to leave it the way it is
. You're the one arguing to change things. But the thing you can't seem to grasp is that we've already been there
. It was just before you played here. As I said early on, these changes that have led to the system we have today, all came about as a result of the failures
of the way it was done before. It wasn't precisely as you describe, but it was much more similar to what you're looking for than what we have now. And it was a complete, abject failure
. We've done it that way. It didn't work (minus for a handful of players who abused the already-mentioned shortcomings of the system, they loved
it). Sorry you missed it?
You mention that it should bring balance into the game. But indeed there is no balance as it is right now.
There's about a billion times more balance now than there has been in the past. But then you wouldn't know that since you haven't played more than a single game to understand the changes the game's had to acheive this.
Every update gets us a little bit closer, but it will never be perfect, it's not meant to be. There's only meant to be some semblance of it.
I have mentioned how very few airliners have in some cases 50% of a certain type on order.
Which is a completely useless statement to begin with.
Who cares if someone has 50% of the demand of an aircraft? Maybe only a handful of players have any desire to operate it? Maybe he's such a large airline that, even if its' the most popular aircraft in the world, it still follows that he should be purchasing most of the production? As I said, you clearly don't understand the implications when you say the things you do.
Maybe you haven't been to a real airport lately, but just in case you havent, here's a News Flash for ya -- a relative handful of airlines buy the majority of production
. Why? Because they control the vast majority of the market. *gasp* Shocker, I know.
Besides, with the way that deliveries of large orders go OUT in time, no singular large order affects your ability to take delivery of any plane you want. It takes a concerted effect by MANY airlines to do this. Because it doesn't matter whether I place an order for 10 or an order for 100, my delivery rate is precisely the same as anyone else's, and your order for 5 would be delivered in the exact same timeframe no matter what. Only when the market
is full, would things change, and the market
is going to be full no matter what.
These will be on the lease market at inflated prices decreasing balance, rather than increasing it.
1> Just because someone buys a lot of planes doesn't mean they'll be on the market. People have been controlling these mystical "50%" shares of total production of aircraft for all of the ATB and MT2 worlds. Yet there are virtually none of them every put onto the market. Surprise, surprise. Some people actually NEED
all of those planes. Historically speaking, only a few airlines per game-world actively participate in selling/leasing their purchased aircraft on the Used Market.
Bringing balance, this is your word, into the game, could de done in much moere efficient ways.
Um, no. "Balance" was actually used in this thread first by sami's
Putting a cap on maximum orders or simply by not allowing any single airline to have more than xx% of the slots at a certain airport. This will increase competition and balance and avoid a very very few very very big players. This would obviously only be in the bigger airports, say the top 50 or top 100 or whatever.
You clearly don't get this "Balance" thing, do you?
It's not about making every single airline the same size.
It's not about ultimately limiting just how big an airline can get.
It's not about making every single airline experience the exact same "restrictions" (to use one of your words) -- quite the contrary it usually means putting restrictions on some players and not others which is why we have a number of such restrictions. It's about an effort to give everyone the same OPPORTUNITIES to succeed.
That doesn't mean that you throw the 'sim' out the window at the expense of it by allowing anyone to order whatever they want whenever they want, but you provide a systematic means of allowing newer players to procure planes without significantly affecting those already established.
For sami, that specifically means not creating systems where the ultimate outcome is decided not by skill, but by whoever spends the most time in front of their computer hitting Refresh. Your ideas -- both the allowing of existing orderers to "cut" in line and the order cap, both encourage
such behaviors in such a large way that it would be extremely detrimental to those who only come online every day or two or even less -- which completely flies in the face of sami's design philosophy.
All your arguments are nothing but nonsens. Putting a cap on maximum orders will NOT lead to "short game" simply because if you can only have say 20 A/C's on order at any given time these 20 units will be used quite fast.
Jesus you're daft.
The fact that they will be used "quite fast" is precisely the point
If a person can only have 20 units on order, then the total number of planes you can take delivery of in a given time is ultimately decided by how quickly you can place another order immediately after you receive a plane so that you always
have 20 on order. You've created a giant game of "Leapfrog". The quicker you can take your delivery, free up your 20th "allotment", and jump to the rear -- the sooner you'll get the new order. But if you don't log on very often, a lot of other people who have been playing this "leapfrog" game better than you are now ahead of you in the line.
Sami's system now doesn't punish you at all for not logging on all the time. You can place huge orders and just let them come in. I, for one, (after the early portions of the game) don't even bother to schedule my planes until I've got at least 10-15 of them waiting to be done. I'd be severely punished under your proposal for not constantly adding to my order queue with every delivery I received in order to keep my production queue at 20. By the time I log-in to place my order, I've now got a gap between my last order and the next one -- a gap that wouldn't exist if I had been allowed to place the big order I originally wanted.
And then there's the fact that you're making the false assumption that simply because order caps were smaller that production queues would be shorter -- which is a huge fallacy.
If everyone were limited to just 20 aircraft, the A320 queue wouldn't magically get shorter. It's at where it is now because the market has dictated that's how long it's willing to wait for A320s
. If you made it so that people could only place 20 at a time, then you would just replace the larger orders with more airlines
because the A320 would become a viable option for other airlines that it's not viable for now (which, as you said, is your ultimate goal). Without changing the production RATE, you cannot change the delivery time. Can't be done. What this means is that you've now created a scenario where there are "gaps" between successive orders; very large gaps at that. If I placed the very first order for 20, I'll get my planes over the course of, let's say, 2 years (since you said deliveries may be slower under your proposal) -- that's great. But what happens when I place my next order? Today, it gets appended to the end and I keep getting deliveries at a constant rate. But under your proposal there's now a 2-year gap where I cannot receive any A320s. I must either turn to alternative planes (not likely, or smart) or, more likely, turn to the Used market driving up demand and pricing there
(didn't you say that's something you wanted to avoid?).
The alternative to that is to create a production queue that's absolutely limited by time; say one that can be no longer than 3 years long.
And if you were to force the production queues to be so much shorter, it's entirely possible to not be able to order a plane at all
. A queue is essentially infinite now. This would not be the case if they're time-limited. At least now I can order my 50 x A320s (or whatever) and know full-well that I will get some, I'll just have to wait a few years. But if a queue was forced short, every single spot would most certainly be taken on the more popular aircraft. Instead it would come down to how often I sat around and Refreshed at Noon when someone got a delivery, so I could jump into their 20th spot they freed up at the end of the queue -- along with a few hundred other players doing the same thing. Great fun indeed.
And then there's the fact that by spreading out demand, you've now created an exponential increase in airline growth. If you want 60 planes, you'll get them 3 times faster by placing 3 orders for 20 of separate models than you will by placing a single order for 60. This hurts that "balance" thing we were talking about, as it's been one of sami's primary goals the last few games to slow
the growth of airlines. He wants to promote
placing larger orders for aircraft, not discourage it, and certainly not encourage the use of additional models.
And then there's the fact that shorter queues also mean more cash-on-hand. Without the possibility of tying up too much cash in new aircraft procurement, the cash instead sits in the bank. This makes competition infinitely
harder since anyone with experience in this game can tell you that about the only chance to "take someone out" is whenever they make a mistake tying up too much of their free cash on aircraft purchases and then you cut their margins. More cash in the bank means competition would be virtually impossible.
Like I said, you clearly don't understand the greater implications of your ideas beyond your myopic view of how nice it would be for you
rather than for the player-base as a whole.
Maybe even a bit more than today. Also this will bring and end to selling aircrafts at close to double up of tha value on the used A/C market.
1> Did an aircraft scammer like kill your parents or something? You seem to harp on this a lot for something that almost never happens. The process of selling aircraft by other airlines doesn't really occur until the very end of a game and even then only by a very small number of players and even fewer for more than a small margin. Those kind of prices usually are put on crappy planes by inexperienced players hoping to make a quick buck but find their plane doesn't sell. Here we are at 35% on 2 worlds and there's not a single Airbus or Boeing being sold by another player. Everyone's using their planes.
2> The limit on aircraft markup is 50%, not double.