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Author Topic: production slots  (Read 5349 times)

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2010, 06:54:12 PM »
 Sigma, and yet we have the ridiculous rule about not being able to book A/Cs at earlier arrivaldate than the latest you have on order. An that is to make it more fair, or balanced, for certain players.

 I still find this rule stupid. If you want to make the game more balanced then put a cap on how many aicrafts any given airliner can have on order at any given time. Then we will not see very few or only one airliner sitting on the used aircraft market for long periods of time. As we do know. Which leads to inflated prices and unfair competition.

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2010, 08:29:40 PM »
I still find this rule stupid. If you want to make the game more balanced then put a cap on how many aicrafts any given airliner can have on order at any given time. Then we will not see very few or only one airliner sitting on the used aircraft market for long periods of time. As we do know. Which leads to inflated prices and unfair competition.

That would only make the problem worse.  No offense, but you keep demonstrating shortsightedness and a clear bias towards your particular problem/viewpoint without considering the larger implications of it.

Larger orders wouldn't help achieve any balance at all.  As a matter of fact, larger orders HELP newer players because larger orders with deliveries spaced every 3-4 weeks force people to wait many times longer for planes than if they did many smaller orders for multiple types.  They get a guaranteed delivery (i.e. they don't get to make the aforementioned "gamble" on whether spots will open), they get tax benefits for the large capital expense, and they pay a reduced price for buying in "bulk".  But they do so at the expense of knowing that they will never be able to place any orders for planes sooner than they've already got.

By putting caps on the number of a plane that one can order at once you encourage people to play the "short game".  There won't be early spots in the queue for newer airlines to take advantage of because even the largest, oldest airline will be able to take advantage of them because they will no longer have the benefit.  You are instead encouraging people to sit at their computers and hit refresh over and over again waiting for that spot to open up in the queue so that they can take it.  This makes it exponentially harder, nigh impossible, for a newer airline to ever hope to receive a highly-sought aircraft.  This is already allowed behavior, but order caps would encourage it, while the system now strikes a careful balance between both scenarios that provides enough benefit to those who simply place orders and wait and enough detriments to those who want to "gamble" that they are not walking all over those who are entering a game later.

You didn't have to place your orders but you chose to.  You could have chose to try to "gamble", wait for open spots, and take your chances at getting open spots earlier in the queue, but you didn't.  Sami doesn't say that you can't "cut in line" if you're an established airline and that cutting is only for newer players.  He says that you get a choice -- you can take the "Sure thing" by placing an order for the future.  Or you can take the gamble, roll the dice, and delay your purchase waiting for someone to jump out of line so you can cut.  

You make the choice, you live with the consequences.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2010, 01:44:59 AM »
You make the choice, you live with the consequences.


I like my 8 A340s delivered in 5 months, 8 months after launch. Thank you very much  :P


- Talentz

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2010, 05:38:58 AM »
 With all due respect but I only see you arguing for change.  But no reasons.

 You mention that it should bring balance into the game. But indeed there is no balance as it is right now. I have mentioned how very few airliners have in some cases 50% of a certain type on order. These will be on the lease market at inflated prices decreasing balance, rather than increasing it.
 Bringing balance, this is your word, into the game, could de done in much moere efficient ways. Putting a cap on maximum orders or simply by not allowing any single airline to have more than xx% of the slots at a certain airport. This will increase competition and balance and avoid a very very few very very big players. This would obviously only be in the bigger airports, say the top 50 or top 100 or whatever.
 All your arguments are nothing but nonsens. Putting a cap on maximum orders will NOT lead to "short game" simply because if you can only have say 20 A/C's on order at any given time these 20 units will be used quite fast. Airliners would have to decide to buy either long haul or short haul or a mix. This will spread out the orders more evenly amongst all types available and make 5-7 years wait a thing of the history. There still has to be a gap between deliveries. Maybe even a bit more than today. Also this will bring and end to selling aircrafts at close to double up of tha value on the used A/C market. This only happens because a few airliners are having the vast majority of orders. So no, a cap on maximum orders will make it easier for everyone but the very largest airliners. It will make new aircrafts available sooner to most players and most likely there will be fewer cancellations of orders.

Offline Kazari

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Re: production slots
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2010, 01:26:26 PM »
Companies order large numbers of aircraft IRL. Why should it be different in this game?

I concur with Sigma; if someone is refreshing constantly to order a new plane then it diminishes the game for others.

Before we had this system, we had a more laissez faire system that imitated some of what you are advocating; it was a disaster. I think the way it is now works out for the most number of people.

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2010, 01:34:40 PM »
With all due respect but I only see you arguing for change.  But no reasons.

Erm, I'm not arguing for change at all. I'm arguing to leave it the way it is.  You're the one arguing to change things.  But the thing you can't seem to grasp is that we've already been there.  It was just before you played here.  As I said early on, these changes that have led to the system we have today, all came about as a result of the failures of the way it was done before.  It wasn't precisely as you describe, but it was much more similar to what you're looking for than what we have now.  And it was a complete, abject failure.  We've done it that way.  It didn't work (minus for a handful of players who abused the already-mentioned shortcomings of the system, they loved it).  Sorry you missed it?

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You mention that it should bring balance into the game. But indeed there is no balance as it is right now.

There's about a billion times more balance now than there has been in the past.  But then you wouldn't know that since you haven't played more than a single game to understand the changes the game's had to acheive this.

Every update gets us a little bit closer, but it will never be perfect, it's not meant to be.  There's only meant to be some semblance of it.

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I have mentioned how very few airliners have in some cases 50% of a certain type on order.

Which is a completely useless statement to begin with.

Who cares if someone has 50% of the demand of an aircraft?  Maybe only a handful of players have any desire to operate it?  Maybe he's such a large airline that, even if its' the most popular aircraft in the world, it still follows that he should be purchasing most of the production?  As I said, you clearly don't understand the implications when you say the things you do.

Maybe you haven't been to a real airport lately, but just in case you havent, here's a News Flash for ya -- a relative handful of airlines buy the majority of production.  Why?  Because they control the vast majority of the market.  *gasp*  Shocker, I know.

Besides, with the way that deliveries of large orders go OUT in time, no singular large order affects your ability to take delivery of any plane you want.  It takes a concerted effect by MANY airlines to do this.  Because it doesn't matter whether I place an order for 10 or an order for 100, my delivery rate is precisely the same as anyone else's, and your order for 5 would be delivered in the exact same timeframe no matter what.  Only when the market is full, would things change, and the market is going to be full no matter what.

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These will be on the lease market at inflated prices decreasing balance, rather than increasing it.

1>  Just because someone buys a lot of planes doesn't mean they'll be on the market.  People have been controlling these mystical "50%" shares of total production of aircraft for all of the ATB and MT2 worlds.  Yet there are virtually none of them every put onto the market.  Surprise, surprise.  Some people actually NEED all of those planes.  Historically speaking, only a few airlines per game-world actively participate in selling/leasing their purchased aircraft on the Used Market.

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Bringing balance, this is your word, into the game, could de done in much moere efficient ways.

Um, no.  "Balance" was actually used in this thread first by sami's, thank-you-very-much.

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Putting a cap on maximum orders or simply by not allowing any single airline to have more than xx% of the slots at a certain airport. This will increase competition and balance and avoid a very very few very very big players. This would obviously only be in the bigger airports, say the top 50 or top 100 or whatever.

You clearly don't get this "Balance" thing, do you?

It's not about making every single airline the same size.
It's not about ultimately limiting just how big an airline can get.  
It's not about making every single airline experience the exact same "restrictions" (to use one of your words) -- quite the contrary it usually means putting restrictions on some players and not others which is why we have a number of such restrictions.  

It's about an effort to give everyone the same OPPORTUNITIES to succeed.  That doesn't mean that you throw the 'sim' out the window at the expense of it by allowing anyone to order whatever they want whenever they want, but you provide a systematic means of allowing newer players to procure planes without significantly affecting those already established.

For sami, that specifically means not creating systems where the ultimate outcome is decided not by skill, but by whoever spends the most time in front of their computer hitting Refresh.  Your ideas -- both the allowing of existing orderers to "cut" in line and the order cap, both encourage and reward such behaviors in such a large way that it would be extremely detrimental to those who only come online every day or two or even less -- which completely flies in the face of sami's design philosophy.

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All your arguments are nothing but nonsens. Putting a cap on maximum orders will NOT lead to "short game" simply because if you can only have say 20 A/C's on order at any given time these 20 units will be used quite fast.

Jesus you're daft.

The fact that they will be used "quite fast" is precisely the point.

If a person can only have 20 units on order, then the total number of planes you can take delivery of in a given time is ultimately decided by how quickly you can place another order immediately after you receive a plane so that you always have 20 on order.  You've created a giant game of "Leapfrog".  The quicker you can take your delivery, free up your 20th "allotment", and jump to the rear -- the sooner you'll get the new order.  But if you don't log on very often, a lot of other people who have been playing this "leapfrog" game better than you are now ahead of you in the line.

Sami's system now doesn't punish you at all for not logging on all the time.  You can place huge orders and just let them come in.  I, for one, (after the early portions of the game) don't even bother to schedule my planes until I've got at least 10-15 of them waiting to be done.  I'd be severely punished under your proposal for not constantly adding to my order queue with every delivery I received in order to keep my production queue at 20.   By the time I log-in to place my order, I've now got a gap between my last order and the next one -- a gap that wouldn't exist if I had been allowed to place the big order I originally wanted.

And then there's the fact that you're making the false assumption that simply because order caps were smaller that production queues would be shorter -- which is a huge fallacy.

If everyone were limited to just 20 aircraft, the A320 queue wouldn't magically get shorter.  It's at where it is now because the market has dictated that's how long it's willing to wait for A320s.  If you made it so that people could only place 20 at a time, then you would just replace the larger orders with more airlines because the A320 would become a viable option for other airlines that it's not viable for now (which, as you said, is your ultimate goal).  Without changing the production RATE, you cannot change the delivery time.  Can't be done.  What this means is that you've now created a scenario where there are "gaps" between successive orders; very large gaps at that.  If I placed the very first order for 20, I'll get my planes over the course of, let's say, 2 years (since you said deliveries may be slower under your proposal) -- that's great.  But what happens when I place my next order?  Today, it gets appended to the end and I keep getting deliveries at a constant rate.  But under your proposal there's now a 2-year gap where I cannot receive any A320s.  I must either turn to alternative planes (not likely, or smart) or, more likely, turn to the Used market driving up demand and pricing there (didn't you say that's something you wanted to avoid?).

The alternative to that is to create a production queue that's absolutely limited by time; say one that can be no longer than 3 years long.

And if you were to force the production queues to be so much shorter, it's entirely possible to not be able to order a plane at all.  A queue is essentially infinite now. This would not be the case if they're time-limited. At least now I can order my 50 x A320s (or whatever) and know full-well that I will get some, I'll just have to wait a few years.  But if a queue was forced short, every single spot would most certainly be taken on the more popular aircraft.  Instead it would come down to how often I sat around and Refreshed at Noon when someone got a delivery, so I could jump into their 20th spot they freed up at the end of the queue -- along with a few hundred other players doing the same thing.  Great fun indeed.

And then there's the fact that by spreading out demand, you've now created an exponential increase in airline growth.  If you want 60 planes, you'll get them 3 times faster by placing 3 orders for 20 of separate models than you will by placing a single order for 60.  This hurts that "balance" thing we were talking about, as it's been one of sami's primary goals the last few games to slow the growth of airlines.  He wants to promote placing larger orders for aircraft, not discourage it, and certainly not encourage the use of additional models.

And then there's the fact that shorter queues also mean more cash-on-hand.  Without the possibility of tying up too much cash in new aircraft procurement, the cash instead sits in the bank.  This makes competition infinitely harder since anyone with experience in this game can tell you that about the only chance to "take someone out" is whenever they make a mistake tying up too much of their free cash on aircraft purchases and then you cut their margins.  More cash in the bank means competition would be virtually impossible.

Like I said, you clearly don't understand the greater implications of your ideas beyond your myopic view of how nice it would be for you rather than for the player-base as a whole.

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Maybe even a bit more than today. Also this will bring and end to selling aircrafts at close to double up of tha value on the used A/C market.

1>  Did an aircraft scammer like kill your parents or something?  You seem to harp on this a lot for something that almost never happens.  The process of selling aircraft by other airlines doesn't really occur until the very end of a game and even then only by a very small number of players and even fewer for more than a small margin.  Those kind of prices usually are put on crappy planes by inexperienced players hoping to make a quick buck but find their plane doesn't sell.  Here we are at 35% on 2 worlds and there's not a single Airbus or Boeing being sold by another player.  Everyone's using their planes.

2>  The limit on aircraft markup is 50%, not double.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 03:19:28 PM by Sigma »

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2010, 06:01:34 AM »
 No you are right, it was way to early in the morning. You are exactly NOT for any change. Burried in conservatism and backward thinking. Thinking no change is to be the better.

  I do not know which wordl you are in. And I do not mean game world. I mean which real time world you live in.
 "Here we are at 35% on 2 worlds and there's not a single Airbus or Boeing being sold by another player." But this is exactly what we have seen and will continue to see. It has taken place at the used aircraft market for one player selling airbuses. A320's at a very inflated price. Huge order just to sell them on the used A/C market at inflated prices. Legal; yes. Creating balance; no.

 You are assuming that people in front of the screen having nothing else to do. I just think differently. A 20 order cap ( 20 is no magic number as written before)  will make for example A320 available to more players. Noone will order to sell, as has taken place whether you have seen or not, but people order to use it themselves. And forgive me for thinking people mig have a live beside this game, so they wouldn't sit and wait for ONE aircraft to be delivered so they can order ONE more aircraft.

 Well I am not about to write a essay, like you did. To make this short. We do not agree. I am not against change just because it is a change. Because the cancellations are so very limited it is NOT a factero that brings balance into the game. If you need to replace a fleet you need to order, and wait 5 years or more. There is no way you can replace a fleet with only cancelled orders.
 This stupid rule was implemented to make the game more balanced, I believe was stated somewhere. Well this has failed big time then. You give a littlefinger but take the whole arm. A-B-C-B-A routing has been removed promoting flying out of big airports and promoting operating only major routes. Most markets in Africa could be operated with a A-B-C-A routing, putting more balance into the game. Even that is not possible. So to be honest... the balance thing I don't think has been very much thought through.

 No need for further discussion. I mean what is the point. You can't make sense and promote forward thinking with a caveman who is burried in very old days and a conservatism that promotes backward thinking and rejecting ideas, because ideas means change

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2010, 06:28:47 AM »
No you are right, it was way to early in the morning. You are exactly NOT for any change. Burried in conservatism and backward thinking. Thinking no change is to be the better.

For what must be the fifth-time now, you blithering idiot, things HAVE changed.  What you see now is the result of change.  You're the one who doesn't want change.  You're the one who wants to see things more like they were in the "old days", not me.  I'm the proponent for change -- you're the proponent for the "old ways" and you're the one moaning about the changes that have been made -- you're just too damned ignorant to realize it.  We've done it your way before[/b].  Sorry you missed it, but it just didn't work.  You don't have the experience or simple time here to understand why the changes were made.   I understand why, without knowledge, they would seem pretty stupid -- but even after someone's explained to you why they exist, you're still too damned daft to get it.

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You are assuming that people in front of the screen having nothing else to do. I just think differently.

I'm not assuming anything.  I'm speaking from experience, something you lack a lot of in this game.  It's great that you think every player here has something better to do.  I'm sure all those that don't, really wish they did.  But fact of the matter is that a lot of people do sit here and hit the Refresh button constantly.  There's 500 people to a game-world, and they're not all going to be social butterflies, sorry.  This isn't an opinion of mine of what I think might happen; it is what will happen because it already has.  In fact, a great many, if not MOST of the changes to the game in the past 18 months have been a direct result of the significant impact that just these type of players had on game-worlds, and the changes were made to mitigate the benefits they got simply by being willing to be online all the time.  Here's just a sampling of the ones off the top of my head...

1>  You used to be able to cut in line when people's orders were cancelled -- but certain airlines were swooping up virtually single cancelled order and getting huge numbers of planes far quicker than those who weren't on 24/7, so the ability was removed.  
2>  You used to know when the Used Market refreshed -- but certain players were sitting at their PCs waiting for the exact time and swooping up almost all the planes, so caps were put in place
3>  Even after purchase caps were put in place, some players that were willing to put in the time to be online at refreshes were getting too many planes, so it was changed to a "random" system
4>  Even with the change to a "random" system, some players spent so much time refreshing the market, they eventually determined what the pattern was of market refreshes and continued to abuse it, so it was further changed to be even "more random" -- I believe the total tweaks to the system are up to 4 changes now, just in an effort to combat this scourge it was such a big problem
5>  You used to know exactly when planes would launch -- problem was that many players would literally go so far as to set their alarm clocks to wake them up in the middle of the night so that they could try to get Launch orders.  Within literally seconds of a plane's launch, there would sometimes be orders for hundreds because so many players were sitting around chomping at the bit to get them.  And this was back before the changes to the production system and queues used to be really short compared to now, they did it to say they were the first and to get the launch discount.  With the production system changes we have now, players would be exponentially more inclined to repeat this behavior to procure planes because it would be of far more value than it used to be.

You'll think this is crazy (I know I do), but just to give you an idea of just how far some people take this game -- I know a few players who literally set their alarm clocks for when one of their planes is going into C-Checks so that they can manually move its schedule to an alternate plane.  And they do this even when they have dozens of planes.  They'll wake up several times a night just so that they can be certain that they're making the absolute most money by getting the absolute most utilization of their aircraft and running all their routes all the time.  I would, quite literally, consider them insane.  There's a lot of people out there like that who take this game way too seriously, enough that their actions significantly detract from the playability and enjoyment of everyone else and have forced sami to make a number of changes to the game systems to not promote just this behavior.

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A-B-C-B-A routing has been removed promoting flying out of big airports and promoting operating only major routes. Most markets in Africa could be operated with a A-B-C-A routing, putting more balance into the game. Even that is not possible. So to be honest... the balance thing I don't think has been very much thought through.

ABCBA routing change had NOTHING to do with "balance" -- if anything it's detrimental to it, as you have said.  It was a change made for the sake of the "sim" aspect of the game.  As I said, sami's not gonna entirely throw out the "sim" aspect just for the sake of "balance", he's got to strike a balance (no pun intended) between the "sim" and the playability aspects.  And that's precisely why he's already said that the feature is going to change in the near future; it was simply too detrimental to the playability of the game, particularly in regards to the competitive aspects of you.  Unfortunately for you, probably not so far back to allowing ABCBA throughout the African continent though.  I doubt the continent will ever be a viable location for a sizeable airline outside of couple airports until, at best, the demand model changes away from the airport-driven one that we have today.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 07:05:40 AM by Sigma »

Offline Sami

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Re: production slots
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2010, 08:02:16 AM »
OK ..... Calm down everyone.


For the record, there are no changes coming or planned to the aircraft ordering system. It was revised in v.1.05 I think it was and it represents reality now with the degree that is relevant and that's how it will stay.

ngaira

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2010, 12:23:30 PM »
Hi, alot has been said about the ordering system. For me, its really demoralising to see an airline that orders the same a/c as yours get theirs way before yours. I mean, c'mon!! Where is the fairness? This in a way kills the enthusiasm to keep on playing the game. Its has/is happening to me. Thanks!

Offline swiftus27

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Re: production slots
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2010, 04:11:14 PM »
Hi, alot has been said about the ordering system. For me, its really demoralising to see an airline that orders the same a/c as yours get theirs way before yours. I mean, c'mon!! Where is the fairness? This in a way kills the enthusiasm to keep on playing the game. Its has/is happening to me. Thanks!

please tell me this is satire!?

You cant be this dense. 

Are you sure the other airline simply didnt order their plane earlier than you did?

ngaira

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2010, 04:56:48 PM »
Dense is a pretty harsh word to use in this case. The other airline begun operations way after mine. When it had its feelt of old 727s I begun ordering my A340-200s and to my surprise I see they already have the A340-200s in their fleet. How dense can we be?

Dookz

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2010, 05:20:36 PM »
I don't see how it is unfair. It could have been a case of a large airline going bankrupt and airlines who havent placed an order for that type, took those opportunity and booked their orders on those empty slots ahead of the line or perhaps pulled it out of the used market or maybe they were just able to afford it sooner than you did even though they started late.

ngaira

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2010, 06:44:31 PM »
Man, these were orders for brand new planes nothing to do with the used market. In anycase even if an airline goes burst, I think I should have been moved closer to delivery time than the other airline. Remember, the orders are for new planes. As we speak, the airline is receiving its new planes while am still waiting for mine.

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2010, 06:53:30 PM »
Slots do move up, but only if certain conditions are met.

The slots must be quite a ways out in time -- I believe it's a year.  And only then after they've been vacated for some time.  This is realistic -- if a company cancels orders for planes, Boeing isn't going to disrupt the plans of all its customers as the first choice, it's going to attempt to fill the slot. If the slots can't get filled, the orders move up when the system does a check that occurs every so often (it's several weeks or few months, quite some time for the slot to get filled)

If the vacancy occurs less than a year out (or whatever the timeframe is, I can't remember) then the production line will never move up.  This is also realistic.  Opening a route in real-life, unlike here where it takes seconds, takes years of planning and can involve the hiring of hundreds of individuals.  Getting something earlier, especially something that costs you hundreds of millions of dollars, isn't what most companies want despite what people here want to believe.  Aircraft manufacturers wouldn't earn themselves any friends if they suddenly started delivering planes 6 months ahead of their contracted date. So those slots that are vacated in the near-term are open and remain open for anyone (who doesn't already have an order outstanding) to take up until the minimum delivery time of about 3 months.

ngaira

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2010, 07:06:13 PM »
Thanks Sigma!! For me this situation has sliced greatly into the market share. Anyway, lets just see how it goes, while I await for my planes to arrive.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: production slots
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2010, 11:40:02 AM »
OR..... they could have gotten a used A340!  I have 2 that I found in the used market that were on sale from the cpu.  There are a total of 9 A340s and 9 A330s currently that are owned by the CPU.

To see this, please look at Global Statistics.

Also, if someone is able to get an order or two in the vacated slots, you better be assured that the rest of their orders are at the end of the line.

And again, just because your airline started before a different one doesnt mean that they ordered the A/C after you did.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 11:51:51 AM by swiftus27 »

Filippo

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2010, 09:58:33 AM »
The problems are not the slots, but the fact that with 1 aircraft a month you are not able to cover all demand from your 3 bases even in a 50 years game!

Offline swiftus27

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Re: production slots
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2010, 01:14:47 PM »
The problems are not the slots, but the fact that with 1 aircraft a month you are not able to cover all demand from your 3 bases even in a 50 years game!

depends on the airport...  I think this is a game advantage personally.  Plus it is one plane per month per fleet type. 

Filippo

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2010, 01:47:30 PM »
I get the game advantage that you can have nice spaces between C/D checks, but if you are based in a large airport no way you can cover all the demand in just a 20 year scenario.

I suggest something: what if you have to pay for your extra delivery slots? Say you order 12 737-700s. You could receive them in 12 months for no extra charge (this sounds very easujet ;D ). But, you want them in 3 months. So you buy the extra delivery slot from the manufacturer or even other airlines (give a maximum of 4 a month  for small a/c and 2 a month for big a/c to stop airlines buying entire production lines!). The cost of the slot would be determined by the number of aircraft ordered of that production line.

This would allow everybody to be happy as you could receive aircraft in the way you want (fast or slow), it could be an investment as a production slot would rise or decrease in value to add a new dimension to the game and it could help small airlines to grow faster either by getting planes faster or getting good cash because of their valuable production slots!

What do you think?

 

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