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Author Topic: production slots  (Read 5351 times)

Sandager

  • Former member
production slots
« on: June 27, 2010, 04:58:53 AM »
 I see some green production slots for some aircrafts. But trying to order an aircraft it is not possible to get one of these slots. Why is that?

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2010, 05:05:11 AM »
Are they within the next 3 months or so? 

You can't order a plane for delivery within that small of a window.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2010, 05:53:40 AM »
 Between 9 and 16 months into the future. Have a look at the A320 production slots. Available from september. I just can't order any or just one aircraft with delivery anytime sooner than 1999

Offline JonesyUK

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Re: production slots
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2010, 08:45:43 AM »
If you've already got some on order, it won't let you order more to arrive before your last delivery... evenif slots are available.

Dunno if this is by design

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2010, 10:31:23 AM »
If you've already got some on order, it won't let you order more to arrive before your last delivery... evenif slots are available.

Dunno if this is by design

 Ok. that explains the situation. However that is absolutely stupid. WHY is that invented in this game?

Offline Teemu

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Re: production slots
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2010, 12:46:22 PM »
Ok. that explains the situation. However that is absolutely stupid. WHY is that invented in this game?

Because some other players might want to order same AC type and then they would get them in 2010 ;)

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2010, 02:32:37 PM »
Because some other players might want to order same AC type and then they would get them in 2010 ;)

 That doesn't really explain why you can order again and get the first available slot.

 My first slot on the airbus 320line is in 1997 ( or very late 1996) why shouldn't I be able to get a cancelled slot when one comes up? It is free for everyone to pick. And then again, it isn't because of a stupid rule that I really can't see the reason for.

 Teemu, it is possibel for you to put in an order and wait just like anyone in this game. I had a 5 years wait for the first airbuses. Now only around 3 years away. But still a 5 years wait from ordering

Offline swiftus27

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Re: production slots
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2010, 03:21:35 PM »
It was answered...

If you have that plane type on order, you will not be able to fill up slots that are open UNLESS they are after the last one you have a scheduled delivery for.

Guys, this is designed to HELP new players that come into the game later.  I think it is a good idea.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2010, 04:54:07 PM »
I just completely fail to see how this helps anyone. Newly available slots/cancelled orders are at random. Noone knows if or when there will be some. It is at random when people check for availability for new A/C. And when you make an order you have to wait. Some of us for more than 5 years. Why shouldn't we be able to pick up a single A/C before that?
 Sorry but I just do not get this rule at all. Maybe Sami can explain to me why this is. The explanations so far just doesn't make sense

Online Sami

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Re: production slots
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2010, 05:12:17 PM »
You cannot "cut in line".

The system assigns the slots based on who has ordered first, but also in a way that the first guy does not or can not glog up the line so that waiting time for others is not too long. Thus the delivery rate of about 1 plane per 2 weeks per airline.

If there are cancellations or gaps or prod.rate is increased the system fills them in automatically so players cannot try to manually gain advantage of those. However if some new airlines are lucky they can gain 1-2 odd slots from these gaps but this is supposed to be so.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2010, 05:21:57 PM »
Sami, thanks.

 I still find that rule ridiculous. Sorry

Online Sami

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Re: production slots
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2010, 05:26:44 PM »
Well, that's how it goes.

Giving the opportunity to "who clicks fastest gets it" or "who pays the most gets it" are both bad choices regarding the overall balance.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2010, 06:55:45 PM »
 Sure that is how it goes. And I am going nowhere. I just still find the rule weird and not to benefit anyone. This leaves it up to pure luck whether you make and order 5 years into the future and have to wait. Then some airliner ends up bankrupt and leaves a lot of slots available. This is actually anticompetitive to leave new slots to certain airliners and not to all airliners

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2010, 09:35:47 PM »
Since older, larger airlines are almost always going to have outstanding orders for a particular aircraft and newer airlines are not, common sense dictates that such a rule will more than likley benefit newer airlines moreso than older ones.

These rules didn't just come about on a whim.  They're all the result of many playthroughs of worlds with a great deal of player input.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2010, 05:57:50 AM »
 Just doesn't change the fact that most of us have to wait for 5+ years from ordering. Because of the same big airliners. And we pay the price for that rule

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2010, 06:08:02 AM »
 For sure there are other ways. How about limiting the maximum type aircraft a carrier can have on order.

 For the A320-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 20% of the total orders

 For the A340-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 34% of the total orders

 For the 737-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 39% of the total orders
 
 For the 767-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 40% of the total orders

 For the 777-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 49% of the total orders

 Now tell me that so very few buyers ordering in some cases around 50% of all aircrafts is fair to the rest of us. That is if we are talking about fairness in this game.

 Sami, don't get me wrong. I really enjoy this game. It is great fun. I spend way to much time in front of my computer.

Offline Tiberius

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Re: production slots
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2010, 07:21:42 AM »
I think it is fair.  I'm not the biggest airline, but have grown steadily since the start of the game by buying up old 737's...I saved and saved to get those 777 production slots for two types...and am doing the same with the 737-NG series.  New airlines have an opportunity to get a new aircraft once in a while if they are so inclined...and I can't get any more 777's before 2001...seems fair.

Offline RushmoreAir

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Re: production slots
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2010, 01:03:57 PM »
For sure there are other ways. How about limiting the maximum type aircraft a carrier can have on order.

 For the A320-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 20% of the total orders

 For the A340-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 34% of the total orders

 For the 737-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 39% of the total orders
 
 For the 767-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 40% of the total orders

 For the 777-series the top 5 buyers have ordered more than 49% of the total orders

 Now tell me that so very few buyers ordering in some cases around 50% of all aircrafts is fair to the rest of us. That is if we are talking about fairness in this game.

 Sami, don't get me wrong. I really enjoy this game. It is great fun. I spend way to much time in front of my computer.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this way might not work. For instance, once the 737NG family is announced, most 737 Classic customers flock to the new product.  But there may be a few that want to stick to the old model, for whatever reason.  But, because of the coding, smaller customers that have stayed behind become in the top five, limiting their order book immensely, because so few other airlines are there to make up the 61%.

I think Sami made the right choice in implementing this new system.  Before MT2, I had not seen any airlines jump into a top 50 airport during the middle of a game and do well.  But what do you know, three years after the beginning of the game, a competitor showed up at my airport.  Due to the limited aircraft I was able to secure, this competitor had a chance.  3 years later, he/she became top dog at the airport.  Then he bankrupted, probably due to credit reasons.  But still, he/she was able to prosper, and beat the longstanding airlines.

And like hellsey said, I'm not the biggest airline.  And the new system seemed annoying at first.  But then, I realized that it made the game a whole lot fairer.

Sandager

  • Former member
Re: production slots
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2010, 01:41:05 PM »
 I still fail to see the fairness in slots not being available to all airliners. But being restricted to certain airliners.

Offline Sigma

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Re: production slots
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2010, 11:33:28 PM »
Since when is everything supposed to be "fair"?  Life's not fair, it's full of billions of restrictions, and there's no reason the game should be completely "fair" either (there are dozens of explicit restrictions in this game that affect same airlines but not others, this is FAR from the only one).  

A game must achieve some level of "balance" -- you cannot do that if you are, literally, treating every single player with the same exact "fairness" -- that'd work great if we all started at the exact same time, but the game, like real-life, is full of new entrants and old players.   Ironically enough, restrictions are enacted in reality in order to try to make things "fair" -- tariffs, protections, air freedoms, regulations, etc -- all are applied to perhaps protect legacy carriers or perhaps enable superior competition depending on the intended purpose of the regulalory body.  Here, in our case, the "regulatory body" is sami -- and it's his job to make things "balanced" which is often in direct contradiction with making things "fair".

If you want to take your chances at production slots opening up, you're free to do so.  A number of players do this, some have managed to be lucky enough to be rather successful at it.  You take your chances by placing orders for singular planes whenever windows open up, and you may, if you're lucky, get a lot more planes a lot sooner than if you just stuck a single big order in there.  But you also take the risk that you won't find any open slots and the line only gets longer and longer and you never just get in it.

It's a gamble.  And as with any gamble there's a risk but there's potentially a nice payoff too.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2010, 11:39:53 PM by Sigma »

 

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