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Author Topic: Can't compete?  (Read 3235 times)

jordanD

  • Former member
Can't compete?
« on: June 24, 2010, 04:27:02 AM »
Is there really any way to compete with a bigger airline in this game? I'm getting killed on some of my higher demand routes after (even after I completely filled/slightly overfilled) demand another bigger airline came in and put planes on that route. With their obviously higher CI I don't really stand a chance, as way undercutting on price (even to a loss) doesn't seem to bring any passengers back. Undercutting on price doesn't seem like it would do any good either since I'm sure to the bigger airline it wouldn't hurt them to practically give away seats. How can a smaller airline possibly compete when there isn't really any reason for passengers to choose you over a competitor when the only things the load factors are really based on are CI and price? It's not like I can come in and offer extra service to win some of my passengers back. I suppose it's more of a rant than a question. Some of my most profitable routes are seeing load factors in the 30% range because a bigger airline has come in and taken it. Increasing route frequency and dramatically lowering prices has done nothing to bring them back. My planes are also brand new and they're jets (I'm competing with someone flying turboprops on one of these routes) What's the solution? Cut your losses and know when to drop the route?

castelino009

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2010, 04:45:48 AM »
For a start, post a screenshot of the demand graph of those routes and Sami will have a look. If the demand/seats offered is within the rules then we have to think something else for you.

I completly understand what your saying and this was my point intially when Sami announced multi hubs. Some guys here dont know to play a game(SIMULATION) fairly. its just attack,attack, attack and destroy mode they are on, sad state.

Cheers
VJC

losgatitospeligrosos

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2010, 04:50:01 AM »
Attack, attack, destroy sounds like a perfectly accurate simulation of capitalism. Where's the phrase "creative destruction" come from anyway? If you want a simulation of socialism, then no, not so much.

castelino009

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 05:03:20 AM »
Attack, attack, destroy sounds like a perfectly accurate simulation of capitalism. Where's the phrase "creative destruction" come from anyway? If you want a simulation of socialism, then no, not so much.

Creative destruction????? LOL sorry I wont call that creative, try doing that in real world, you will pay heavy fines. This is simulation, if things are like to like as the real world so should this be as well.

Sami & his team has put a great effort to make a fab game and not a game which people ignore the rule and flood a route. Competiton is good and very much needed but some here take it to extreme level and personal too (check my joining date, have seen all games played here incl beta).

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 07:01:53 AM »
You will never win the props with jets.

Offline ukatlantic

  • Members
  • Posts: 1780
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2010, 05:42:22 PM »
Attack, attack, destroy sounds like a perfectly accurate simulation of capitalism. Where's the phrase "creative destruction" come from anyway? If you want a simulation of socialism, then no, not so much.

Pretty much dont agree with you, in real life maybe, but then again, an airline that would add 200% of demand in real life would ultimately end up making lossess and would probably find themselves on the wrong end of competion law and rules that most countries - yes this includes capatalist nations have.   This is a 'GAME' but some players do treat it like a personal vendetta to push other airlines out and take over routes.  There are some players such as the original poster of this topic, that just want to have a fair crack at making their airline successful, only to see a player hellbent on making them remove capacity or worse force them to b/k all together, this can be done quite easily even within the current 'spirit' of the rules so long as you dont go above 200% of a routes demand.    I personally dont think that demand above 100% by any single airline should be allowed thus creating a fairer environment for all players, and maybe with this new hub system tighter rules should come into play to stop airlines doing this.  

Offline JonnyAngel

  • Members
  • Posts: 179
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2010, 06:02:29 PM »
Pretty much dont agree with you, in real life maybe, but then again, an airline that would add 200% of demand in real life would ultimately end up making lossess and would probably find themselves on the wrong end of competion law and rules that most countries - yes this includes capatalist nations have.   This is a 'GAME' but some players do treat it like a personal vendetta to push other airlines out and take over routes.  There are some players such as the original poster of this topic, that just want to have a fair crack at making their airline successful, only to see a player hellbent on making them remove capacity or worse force them to b/k all together, this can be done quite easily even within the current 'spirit' of the rules so long as you dont go above 200% of a routes demand.    I personally dont think that demand above 100% by any single airline should be allowed thus creating a fairer environment for all players, and maybe with this new hub system tighter rules should come into play to stop airlines doing this. 

Hear, hear!

Offline Tiberius

  • Members
  • Posts: 235
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2010, 06:24:27 PM »
Well I don't dump a million frequencies with props on routes but I do supply better than 100% if there is hardly anyone on the route and I make good LF's.  I think its reasonable competition.  If a big airline is dropping capacity/frequencies barely under the rule, and losing money to boot someone, I think the rule about collaborating against a specific airline might be worth reconsidering...

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2010, 06:27:16 PM »
Hear, hear!
I agree here. This is not a perfect game world, but sami is working all the time to make it as close to real as possible. We still have a ways do go before this becomes just a "mimic", which is what it is. Things will happen and change as time goes by.

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2010, 09:19:08 PM »
You will never win the props with jets.

you will. passengers like more comfortable aircraft that aren't noisy and slow. jets win. ;)

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2010, 03:59:45 AM »
you will. passengers like more comfortable aircraft that aren't noisy and slow. jets win. ;)

People prefer jets in real, but I'm talking the scenario in AWS.

Offline Teemu

  • Members
  • Posts: 348
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2010, 08:51:53 AM »
I'm small player in Japan and I make money... it just depends what path you use .. I fly regional props on routes less than 600 NM :)

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 03:06:44 PM »
I'm small player in Japan and I make money... it just depends what path you use .. I fly regional props on routes less than 600 NM :)

Japan is perfect for regional airlines...

Offline Teemu

  • Members
  • Posts: 348
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2010, 01:08:34 AM »
Japan is perfect for regional airlines...

Yes! I got route to HND and the price I'm asking is lowest but I make more money out of it than the others on the route using VLA's...

Offline Meicci

  • Members
  • Posts: 821
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 05:59:43 PM »
I surely believe that you can compete with much larger airlines. I started this game just a few days ago with 3 props, and I'm already getting higher LF than the Big One. Low prizes, props, short routes (i have the maximum distance of 800nm), good marketing, that's the key in my opinion.

jordanD

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2010, 06:28:58 PM »
I've found the only time I'm able to get decent load factors on routes with high competition is with CRJs. Just "stealing" the very few passengers that aren't flying with the other guys. But the second I drop an MD80 on it the load factors go to crap. So far I've had luck being patient and waiting for the bigger guys to go bankrupt. It's happened a couple times.

Pavlov

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2010, 06:40:37 PM »
Is there really any way to compete with a bigger airline in this game? I'm getting killed on some of my higher demand routes

You exactly pointed out the problem there. If you start halfway or don't have as much expertise as the big guys; don't put your effort in competing with them. Avoid those bigger airlines you mention and avoid the 'higher demand routes' on which you are expected to face competition.

Perhaps try a regional airline, flying in and out of regional airports, with <50 or <70 pax aircraft. Might not be as appealing and sexy, but keeping a low profile minimizes chances of facing 'the big guys'. And if you're successful in that type of business, you can look at other business-models.

Kiipis, proost & na zdrowie!!

Monk Xion

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2010, 02:09:46 AM »
you will. passengers like more comfortable aircraft that aren't noisy and slow. jets win. ;)

Not all props are slow haha. Dash 8-400 and SAAB 2000.

But yes... they will go with the jets. More comfortable.

Offline ISLAS ESPANOLAS

  • Members
  • Posts: 349
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2010, 05:41:13 PM »
This has just happened to me aswell. I have a few routes in particular. One of my routes had all demand filled and a large airline has just doubled hit. The route demand is high and it has just been doubled. I had to run loads of advertising campaigns but they only made a small difference and profit is small.and I had a low demand route 120 pax and it has been doubled to 240. My airline is small and acts like these just ruin my airline. This happened to me before and I went bankrupt so I started again and now I feel my airline will also go bankrupt even though it is worth 190 million. I hope something can be done to limit the amount of over demand on routes.

filipebravo

  • Former member
Re: Can't compete?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 10:50:39 PM »
A company worth $190 million can't just go bankrupt because of one route. If you see you are bleeding cash then you have to explore other routes mate, your airport isn't that bad at all. I see you have 5 dif fleet types, try to stick with 2, max 3. Take a look at my airline, I operate just 2 types and fly to 163 different airports with those 2 types. My airline is highly profitable, and yes, I do have competition.
http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Info/Others/Airline1794

 

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