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Author Topic: Player capacity too high  (Read 2658 times)

fondmetal

  • Former member
Player capacity too high
« on: June 22, 2010, 11:23:33 PM »
Seriously? There are no viable opportunities in this game world. I've spent 3+ hours looking so far and haven't found anything even remotely workable. Why are you letting people p*** away 5 credits to join a world like this? Reduce the player capacity in this world because it's already full. Or allow some measure of previewing the game world before you join. I would have rather waited for Jet Age to start in a week. What a waste of credits...  >:(

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 11:47:19 PM »
Well, according to the developer and few experienced players, player capacity won't affect anything. I agree with you though.

Offline psw231

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Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 01:12:30 AM »
 
Seriously? There are no viable opportunities in this game world. I've spent 3+ hours looking so far and haven't found anything even remotely workable. Why are you letting people p*** away 5 credits to join a world like this? Reduce the player capacity in this world because it's already full. Or allow some measure of previewing the game world before you join. I would have rather waited for Jet Age to start in a week. What a waste of credits...  >:(
  You are not looking very hard for opportunities or just can't see them. I dominate Canada but also know that there is room for another very large airline to be based in Canada. Please don't blame the way the game is set up for not being able to do what you want as there are many people doing well with the way it is set up.
  As for the Jet Age why would you think that it will be any different, there will be many players in that game from the other current games as there allways is, and more that are not active in any present games. I fear that we will hear the same thing again unless you get a bit more patience and get some more experience from trial and error as many of us have done.

fondmetal

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 02:09:52 AM »
    You are not looking very hard for opportunities or just can't see them. I dominate Canada but also know that there is room for another very large airline to be based in Canada. Please don't blame the way the game is set up for not being able to do what you want as there are many people doing well with the way it is set up.
  As for the Jet Age why would you think that it will be any different, there will be many players in that game from the other current games as there allways is, and more that are not active in any present games. I fear that we will hear the same thing again unless you get a bit more patience and get some more experience from trial and error as many of us have done.

Are you joking? I've spent over 5 hours today looking for a viable opportunity in this game world and it's not to be found. There are no routes with 200 daily passengers that aren't filed to, or over, capacity already. I've looked in North America, Africa, Asia and Oceania. Do I really want to start a regional airline at some small/medium airport with 10 routes that have 50 passenger/day demand and will go bust in a game year? No. Seeing as how you've been in this game world since day 1, I really don't think you have any experience with what I'm talking about.

Starting when the game world begins means you have the opportunity to get in early, grab slots, and expand aggressively, as you no doubt are aware. That is not even remotely possible in this game world. I'm not complaining about the game, I had no trouble finding opportunity in Air Transport Boom. This game world however has nothing to offer a new player. Are there any airlines with over 100,000 daily passengers that did not start when Modern Times #2 opened? I can't find any. Starting airline after airline only to end up inevitably in bankruptcy, as is the case with almost everyone who didn't open when MT2 did, is not something that appeals to me.

So, yeah, I'll just wait for Jet Age.

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 02:17:03 AM »
  As for the Jet Age why would you think that it will be any different, there will be many players in that game from the other current games as there allways is, and more that are not active in any present games. I fear that we will hear the same thing again unless you get a bit more patience and get some more experience from trial and error as many of us have done.

That's why he is saying 'Player capacity too high' and expect for a difference in jet age, a smaller game.
Look at this:
http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,22543.0.html
The last point there.

We understand that skill is very important. But, sometimes can we try to think about the reason why peoples are complaining before defending? Ok, even though (assume) it is only a problem of skills, then seems a lot of people are not skillful enough to gain fun in AWS. If there is no fun here, what is the point of making this simulator? Can make it a little easier for us, the unskilled players? Or like suggested before, duplicate a game for some popular game world just for unskilled players.

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 02:22:26 AM »
Do I really want to start a regional airline at some small/medium airport with 10 routes that have 50 passenger/day demand and will go bust in a game year?

For this kind of small airports, most of the routes are flying to the big cities nearby. The problem is, the airlines based at the destination huge city might fly the same route too. And they don't mind to compete with you even losing money because they got other money making routes. They just need to wait until you die...

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 02:23:59 AM »
Hmm .. funny. I looked at the used market today in both ATB and MT2 and thought.. what a great time to start an airline.


But thats just me I guess...



Talentz

losgatitospeligrosos

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 02:31:14 AM »
oh dear. I started an airline in MT#2 3 real-time days ago that has not 1 but 2 routes with 300+ pax capacity/no competition. And it's in Europe, no less, so once I make a little money and save up, I can base anywhere I want. But no, the game is totally closed, no room to grow, and no, I'm not making $550k a week ($250-$300k a week once leases kick in.)

Offline Sigma

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Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2010, 02:35:53 AM »
Well, according to the developer and few experienced players, player capacity won't affect anything. I agree with you though.

Wrong.  You're confusing two different things.  What you're talking about is the discussion on whether more players in a world make it harder for players in general, a subject that several game-worlds of evidence has shown that more players actually makes the games "easier" in terms of player size distribution throughout the game's timespan.

But on the subject of entering game-worlds after the beginning, most everyone, including sami, agrees that worlds with more players make things harder for players entering later into the game.  Hence why sami has initiated a couple discussions on how that very subject could possibly be fixed.

Though that's a separate subject from whether such a situation exists in the current worlds or not.  I haven't really checked around to see.  But, the mistake that most people make is automatically discounting an airport just because the top 20 destinations are full (which would happen if there were just 25 people in the world, let alone 500) -- completely ignoring the other several thousand routes.  99% of the time when people complain there are countless airports that people could use, they're just not ones that they think to check.  Are you likely to find unserved 3000/day routes?  Not very -- but you're not likely to find very large unserved routes in the real-world if you went out and started an airline today either.  I've seen some very large, very wealthy airlines come about in this game flying smaller regional planes to un-/under-served airports in the 100-200/day range -- but people discount the strategy because it's not "glamorous" enough.  The top airports are going to be full no matter how many people were playing a game because those players are, likewise, flying to a certain number of airports that they think of.  The key is to find those airports that aren't the ones that everyone thinks of.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 02:42:07 AM by Sigma »

Offline CVACEO

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Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2010, 02:50:45 AM »
Wrong.  You're confusing two different things.  What you're talking about is the discussion on whether more players in a world make it harder for players in general, a subject that several game-worlds of evidence has shown that more players actually makes the games "easier" in terms of player size distribution throughout the game's timespan.

But on the subject of entering game-worlds after the beginning, most everyone, including sami, agrees that worlds with more players make things harder for players entering later into the game.  Hence why sami has initiated a couple discussions on how that very subject could possibly be fixed.

Though that's a separate subject from whether such a situation exists in the current worlds or not.  I haven't really checked around to see.  But, the mistake that most people make is automatically discounting an airport just because the top 20 destinations are full (which would happen if there were just 25 people in the world, let alone 500) -- completely ignoring the other several thousand routes.  99% of the time when people complain there are countless airports that people could use, they're just not ones that they think to check.  Are you likely to find unserved 3000/day routes?  Not very -- but you're not likely to find very large unserved routes in the real-world if you went out and started an airline today either.  I've seen some very large, very wealthy airlines come about in this game flying smaller regional planes to un-/under-served airports in the 100-200/day range -- but people discount the strategy because it's not "glamorous" enough.  The top airports are going to be full no matter how many people were playing a game because those players are, likewise, flying to a certain number of airports that they think of.  The key is to find those airports that aren't the ones that everyone thinks of.

Case in point ... I restarted 3 years ago in Toluca, Mexico (ever heard of that?  I hadn't until I stumbled across it by chance) andI  now have a modest little airline flying 13 aircraft, 30 routes per day and generating net profits in excess of 2.6 million per week.  My routes average 120 pax per day so they are by no means large but I am quite happy with my little airline generating profits equal to airlines that are 3-4 times larger.  I will soon own my entire fleet and expect my profit margin to stabilize somewhere around the 40% mark with net profits of about $3 million per week within the next year.  Good enough for me.

fondmetal

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2010, 03:03:12 AM »
By all means go ahead and start a new airline, I'll gladly take your hub/slots/business model. I'm sure it's no coincidence that most of the people in this thread started at day one of at least one 1.2 game world, and as such probably has plenty to do. I guess it's my own tough luck for not being one of the few people who beta test the new game worlds or started playing this game two years ago and now know all the angles to make almost *any* airline work in this game.

Just look at "View Airlines" in ATB or MT2. If you want to manage a large airline, lets say arbitrarily one with over 200 aircraft, there are literally no examples in the 1.2 game worlds that did not start early on. That is quite simply the complaint I have. If you do not start when the world starts, your options of game play are limited at best. Balancing a game like this for everyone's personal tastes aside, for me this game world is not enjoyable with this many players. Hence this thread.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2010, 03:23:32 AM »
Just look at "View Airlines" in ATB or MT2. If you want to manage a large airline, lets say arbitrarily one with over 200 aircraft, there are literally no examples in the 1.2 game worlds that did not start early on. That is quite simply the complaint I have. If you do not start when the world starts, your options of game play are limited at best. Balancing a game like this for everyone's personal tastes aside, for me this game world is not enjoyable with this many players. Hence this thread.

Well duh.  The conditions you gave yourself make it almost impossible for anyone who didn't start on Day One to meet.

I started on Day One, am one of the largest airlines in MT2, and don't even have close to 200 planes myself.  No way there's going to many, if any, examples of someone who started much later having that many.  Even moreso because airlines are limited to no more than approximately 1 delivery per month per production line -- meaning most people aren't taking delivery of more than 12-24 aircraft per year -- taking as much as 20 years or more to reach 200 aircraft.

You're a perfect example of my first post above -- if you can't have your 200-aircraft mega-airline the game ain't worth playing, something's "broken", and you want it fixed.  Well, sorry, there's not enough passengers to move for every single person who wants one to have their own person mega-airline.  If you choose to start later in the game, you choose to have a harder time of things.  Just the same as if you chose to go start-up an airline in the Real World today -- it'd be a bit harder than if you had done it in 1950.

The game is never going to be perfectly balanced.  Yes, it is a game, but it is a game that at least tries to put some semblance of reality around things.  And there's nothing "fair" or "balanced" about reality.

If you wanted to go and start a new airline today in the real world what with excess capacity virtually everywhere and all that, you're going to have a harder time of it than someone who started an airline today in such a situation with infinite unmet demand (as are the conditions are Day One).  That dynamic of a more difficult start is never going to change here.  It would apply whether there were 100 players in the world or 500.  The Top airports are still going to be occupied. The largest routes are still going to be taken.  People are still going to complain that there are "no places to start" (and, yes, I've been in those worlds and heard those complaints).
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 03:28:30 AM by Sigma »

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2010, 03:27:50 AM »
My apology, I shouldn't use the phrase 'not affecting'.

So, back to th easiness matter. I remember you were saying a big game is easier at beginning and hard after the game grows. But I was saying the other way round.  I don't know which thread was that, but I didn't see your reply on that thread after I wrote there why I think it is hard at the beginning and easy at the game (for big boys).

And, I'm not hoping to get a place where 3000 pax route is available. Just like you mentioned, those 100/200 pax routes are not glamorous enough. But, I think those guys that complaining here had tried their luck on those 100/200 routes and failed. Things just not as beautiful as what we hope. I got my experience in MT2. I declared bankrupt few times to avoid big guys but at the end I quit MT2. The most successful and the last airline I built in MT2 was in Penang, Malaysia which is just a small airport in a small country. Before that I relocate/restart few times and paid for the 5 credits. All the demand there is around 100 or some 100-200 and almost all these routes are flying to major cities in Asia. Initially I did quiet well with a constant profit and able to expand to 5 aircraft (I think). Then, some other players from those big cities start to fly the same route. I'm flying from A-B and they are flying from B-A and I can't stay there after few real life days.

Lets assume players A, B, C, D, E, F, G competing at the same airport at the beginning. After some time, E, F, G left. Obviously, due to tough competition or maybe they want to start somewhere else or impatience. It is now easier for A, B, C, D due to less competitor. Most of the time, among A, B, C, D, 1 or 2 of them know what aircraft is the best, what route is the best, and they know the condition of the game very well. They'll take the lead. Maybe A, B lead the game and C, D remain expanding slowly or even lost in the competition. Now A, B will lead all the way to the end, the game is easy for them but hard for anyone else.

In a small game, assume only A, B, C competing there. Competition is not so tough and all of them are able to survive and expand. Sure, someone who knows the game well will lead the game, but he can't kill off the competitors so soon. The competition will last longer and it is easy/hard for all of them. Not easy for big boys and hard for others.

Sometimes, things that haven't happen doesn't mean that it won't happen. The problem will not be solved entirely. As mentioned, there are opportunities there in a lot of places, but not all the places. There are spaces in America, EU. But how about Asia or Oceania? For some players, he just want to base in Asia... As player, we should try to accept it and adopt ourselves to it. Developer, please reconsider it and improve it whenever possible.

To help reduce the argument, I request to make a device for searching a suitable airport which have some space for a player who join after the game started. Airport which have most of the demand unfilled will be listed for those who join late. But, this device will only be available for them, not for those who join the game earlier.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 03:44:33 AM »
Quote
Lets assume players A, B, C, D, E, F, G competing at the same airport at the beginning. After some time, E, F, G left. Obviously, due to tough competition or maybe they want to start somewhere else or impatience. It is now easier for A, B, C, D due to less competitor. Most of the time, among A, B, C, D, 1 or 2 of them know what aircraft is the best, what route is the best, and they know the condition of the game very well. They'll take the lead. Maybe A, B lead the game and C, D remain expanding slowly or even lost in the competition. Now A, B will lead all the way to the end, the game is easy for them but hard for anyone else.

In a small game, assume only A, B, C competing there. Competition is not so tough and all of them are able to survive and expand. Sure, someone who knows the game well will lead the game, but he can't kill off the competitors so soon. The competition will last longer and it is easy/hard for all of them. Not easy for big boys and hard for others.

As I mentioned numerous times now, evidence from previous games of varying sizes demonstrates that, in a larger world, where more players are starting in the same airport, they "bump into" one another sooner.  They are forced to compete at an earlier stage of the game while they are still vulnerable, before they reach the stage where they are raking in so much cash that they cannot be stopped.  This slows growth almost across the entire board and keeps players much more in-line with one another.  It creates a much more dynamic, realistic world, where growth is slower because margins are slower, the acquisition of aircraft is slower, and the number of routes being opened is slower.  Ultimately, many more of the airlines are much more similarly-sized than in smaller worlds, where a relative handful of players utterly dominate the world.

In smaller worlds, the players can become massive mega-airlines without ever worrying about competing with one another if they want.  With fewer competitions, margins are greater, aircraft acquisition is faster (even if they need to buy more models to get them, they can afford the commonality hit with more margin due to no/little competition), route expansion is greater, and the game actually gets more full than in a world with fewer airlines (the new base feature limits this somewhat).  The only limitation to growth in smaller games is slots, not competition.  And, to make matters worse, everyone's margins are much larger -- this makes competition with these mega airlines even harder; actually impossible.  In a larger world with tighter margins amongst more players, you have a chance to take much larger airlines out by eroding their profit base (like I did to the 3 much larger airlines at DFW in MT2 this latest go'round, by "sneaking" up while they thought I was small with my MUCH greater cost control and profit margins that allowed me to run them out of business).  If you're not one of the couple-dozen mega-airlines you are tiny in comparison -- player disparity is massive in smaller worlds between the "haves" and the "have-nots".  There is not much room between the mega-airlines that dominate everything due to the lack of early competition and the tiny airlines, most of whom are simply the re-startups of airlines bankrupted by the expansionist rush of the mega airlines.

The world exists outside of a single airport.  Your example makes sense from the perspective of a single airport, but the ultimate difference is the impact those airlines have on all the other airports.  In your 2nd example, A,B,C might all make it -- let's say that they do -- and they're making so much money that they buy all the slots on 4 production lines, getting 50 aircraft a year, and expanding into many nearby airports in order to utilize them all.  They're not concerned with profits really, they're making money hand-over-fist, and no one can ever hope to stop any one of them.

Quote
To help reduce the argument, I request to make a device for searching a suitable airport which have some space for a player who join after the game started. Airport which have most of the demand unfilled will be listed for those who join late. But, this device will only be available for them, not for those who join the game earlier.

Myself, and I'm sure others, have suggested just that.  A means of simply providing an ordered list of airports with unmet demand.  It would be simple, it wouldn't break it down by route, it would simply sum up all the available unmet demand to a location and rank the locations appropriately.  Additionally it would show how many airlines are currently based there.  The new base feature throws a small wrench in this because it, basically, allows a mega-airline to "teleport" into your base.  Quite literally instantaneously that nice airport you had all to yourself is dominated by someone else.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 03:52:55 AM by Sigma »

fondmetal

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 03:48:15 AM »
Sigma, I completely disagree with your assumption that I just look at the "top 20 destinations" and move on. My browser history will attest to that fact. I've viewed literally thousands of route planning pages in this game world today. My complaint is that in this game world, I have found nothing so far that, in the long term, would allow anything much beyond 5-10 aircraft with 20-50 seats on routes that cannot expand past 3-5 daily flights at maximum. Maybe some people want to manage that kind of an airline, but it does not appeal to me. More so than the credits, I would have rather not spent all that time searching for an opening. If the world had just been listed as 'at capacity', I would have simply waited for a new game world to start instead.

Do we really want to start talking about the real world vs this game? I could point to Southwest--they started pre-deregulation in a well established market that was arguably over-served (Texas), and within a decade that saw some of the worst fuel prices in history had a fleet of 27 aircraft and were hugely profitable. Or we could talk about JetBlue, they started in 1998 at JFK of all places (one of the last actual slot-controlled airports in the US) and within a decade have a very modern fleet of 150+ aircraft and remain profitable. Both of these examples are impossible in not just this game world, but the game itself. I can easily list a half-dozen more if you really want to talk about this game vs reality. Regardless, I think you'll find that this is in fact the game play that a majority of the people who are complaining are actually looking for. I for one want exactly that; to be able to implement a profitable business model in ANY market without having my hands tied by the current slot system and/or production lines that run 2000+ aircraft, all of which are on order by the 10-15 airlines that started...at day one. I don't want to start at day one to manage a large airline, my complaint is that's currently the only way to do so.

This is not a case of me criticizing the game itself, as some of you so seemingly want to make it out to be. The developers have done an excellent job with the complexities involved in a game like this. Maybe when I have a "better idea" I'll add it to the Feature Request forum. Until then, I still reserve the right to bitch about a game world I spent 5 euros to join. :P

ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 03:50:54 AM »
By all means go ahead and start a new airline, I'll gladly take your hub/slots/business model. I'm sure it's no coincidence that most of the people in this thread started at day one of at least one 1.2 game world, and as such probably has plenty to do. I guess it's my own tough luck for not being one of the few people who beta test the new game worlds or started playing this game two years ago and now know all the angles to make almost *any* airline work in this game.

Just look at "View Airlines" in ATB or MT2. If you want to manage a large airline, lets say arbitrarily one with over 200 aircraft, there are literally no examples in the 1.2 game worlds that did not start early on. That is quite simply the complaint I have. If you do not start when the world starts, your options of game play are limited at best. Balancing a game like this for everyone's personal tastes aside, for me this game world is not enjoyable with this many players. Hence this thread.

So starting 4.5 years after the beginning of the game counts as starting early on? link

Besides, there are only 25 airlines with over 200 aircraft in ATB.  Given the reduced speed of new aircraft deliveries and how tight the used market has been up until about a year ago game time, I suspect that fact only indicates that it takes 7 or so years to get 200+ aircraft unless you get lucky on the used market.  If in another 7 years of game time only 4% of the airlines with more than 200 aircraft are still ones founded in the first year or so of the game I'll be more inclined to believe in the impossibility of reaching the top if you start late.

//Oh, and I've only been playing the game for less than a year
//And yes, I know my airlines in the current game were founded at the beginning.  However that was not true in the last two games I played.

Offline Sigma

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Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 04:06:52 AM »
Maybe some people want to manage that kind of an airline, but it does not appeal to me. More so than the credits, I would have rather not spent all that time searching for an opening. If the world had just been listed as 'at capacity', I would have simply waited for a new game world to start instead.

And I completely agree that such a tool/message/whatever, should make things easier for new players to start and/or where to start.

Quote
Do we really want to start talking about the real world vs this game? I could point to Southwest--they started pre-deregulation in a well established market that was arguably over-served (Texas), and within a decade that saw some of the worst fuel prices in history had a fleet of 27 aircraft and were hugely profitable. Or we could talk about JetBlue, they started in 1998 at JFK of all places (one of the last actual slot-controlled airports in the US) and within a decade have a very modern fleet of 150+ aircraft and remain profitable. Both of these examples are impossible in not just this game world, but the game itself. I can easily list a half-dozen more if you really want to talk about this game vs reality.

And is the case in both of them, particularly jetBlue, the supply was already there.  they didn't go "Damn, I wish I could open a route from JFK to ATL but Delta has all the demand".  They said, "You know what -- I think I can beat Delta at their own game".  And they did it.  They didn't go and complain that there were too many airlines in the world.  They didn't complain that the government needed to go and magically create extra demand for them so they had someone to move.  They stole the passengers away from the legacy carriers on the routes.

There are massive differences between the real world and this game, and the condition of supply being met isn't really one of them.  The world of air passenger travel has excess capacity in the real world just as it does here (on most routes).  Supply is met on most every route in the world and airlines are created all the time despite this fact.

You can argue that the demand model doesn't take price-sensitivity of demand into account even remotely as close as it should (I'd agree wholeheartedly) therefore not allowing a Southwest-model to work.  
You can argue that the vastly superior economics of start-ups vis-a-vis legacy carriers isn't modeled at all let alone well therefore not allowing a jetBlue-like model to work (I'd agree wholeheartedly).  
You can argue that the demand model being airport-driven rather than regional-driven additionally doesn't allow a Southwest-like model to work, i.e. you can't steal DFW pax by operating out of Love, or ORD pax from operating out of MDW, etc (I'd agree wholeheartedly) allowing mega-carriers to establish slot-constrained "fortresses" where they are completely immune to competition.  
You can argue that the financial model in AWS doesn't allow access to the same capital markets that allow a jetBlue to buy 100+ planes virtually overnight with no money in the bank or allow a start-up to post expected losses for many years while establishing themselves (I'd agree wholeheartedlty).  
You can argue countless things that prevent your provided examples from playing out here in AWS -- but the inability for you to find a place to house your up-and-coming mega-airline isn't one of them, just like there's not such a situation in reality either.

Quote
Regardless, I think you'll find that this is in fact the game play that a majority of the people who are complaining are actually looking for. I for one want exactly that; to be able to implement a profitable business model in ANY market without having my hands tied by the current slot system and/or production lines that run 2000+ aircraft, all of which are on order by the 10-15 airlines that started...at day one.

Then you don't really want a game at all.  You simply want a big spreadsheet that says "X route has Y Pax, do you want to serve?" -- and that's it.  No concern for money -- you want to turn a profit no matter what you do.  No concern for existing supply -- you want there to be routes that you want to open whenever you want to open them.

And since you don't seem familiar with the way game worlds start here, 500 airlines start a game.  A game doesn't start until 24-realhours after it opens.  After such time, before the first game-second ticks by, a world is usually competely full or at least very, very near it, all initial routes are opened and initial orders placed.  So there's just not "10-15 airlines" starting in a world, all 500 players start on the exact same blank sheet of paper.

Quote
This is not a case of me criticizing the game itself, as some of you so seemingly want to make it out to be. The developers have done an excellent job with the complexities involved in a game like this. Maybe when I have a "better idea" I'll add it to the Feature Request forum. Until then, I still reserve the right to bitch about a game world I spent 5 euros to join. :P

There's nothing wrong with criticizing the game itself -- if you couldn't tell from my comments above, I can make a whole host of things to criticize about the game.  All of which I'd say were pretty darned important things too.

But I agree completely.  I am not and never have been a fan of the fact that a world must be joined to really see its current condition.  And I, and many others, have recommended solutions to at least better-educate people before they buy into it.  But the criticism that there is no way to "see into" a world and the criticism that there are too many people in it are two entirely different things.  One I'd completely agree with, the other I'd completely disagree with.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:21:48 AM by Sigma »

Offline psw231

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  • Posts: 295
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2010, 04:07:33 AM »
  Wow, looks like this is getting heated. As for the arguement that fewer will be better, no way. Example as GDK was trying to use.
 If there are A/B/C/D/E/F/G competitors at the same HQ to start the game and A is experienced he will have a more difficult time than if only A/B are based there as he will only have to kill of 1 competitor and this will happen fast and is therefore worse for the inexperienced players who should watch what the best player at thier base is doing so they might learn from them. If there are the full 7 it will take much longer an A will have to concentrate on eliminating the rivals rather than purely on expansion and will be vulnerable to others flying into his/her HQ limiting growth further.  
 If the experienced player only has to eliminate a few competitors at the HQ they will do it quicker and be able to expand into the other available markets faster removing oportunities for others quickly making it a game for only the best players.
  If you are a newb make your expectations corespond to your experience and be patient and learn from others actions and your own mistakes. I myself have only been playing since early 2010 and by following this route have been able to learn fast and in ATB I have one of the top 15 airlines by value and fleet size.
  Oh and as for no opportunities, I took a quick look at 3 Canadian airports and all had several 200+ routes wide open. The last one I checked out in detail and 9 of the top 15 on its' route planing page were wide open 200+ routes. 4 of the 6 unavailable were my HQ and bases. Yes these airports were not class 5 large but you can make a good or even large airline at smaller airports as I did when I joined Jet Age 1.1 at 40% and became the largest airline in 1 of the main European countries.

nlgravity

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2010, 04:59:51 AM »
After much forum-reading and researching AirWayers behavioral traits, I came up with the prefect solution to this issue: You wait, by either buying XBox 360 or working overtime until the next gameword is opening. So you take your favorite airport all to yourself.... jaja... la vida Bella! And you start growing exponentially, so quickly, that by the second round of C checks, you are depp in the red and regret everything you have just done.

THEN, here is my punchline, you file for Chap 11 and begin anew. And Start a new airline doing things right and growing at the perfect pace with your 78-80% LF. Now, stop and realize that you could have done this same exact thing if you were joining 2 years into the world for the first time. And feel silly about all of the complaining that went on in this thead... we would all understand!! ;)


   

fondmetal

  • Former member
Re: Player capacity too high
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2010, 06:31:03 AM »
I'm so not heated about this, it's a game. I'm giving my input on something I've only been watching and playing for a month. I certainly don't think my opinion is 100% correct, but like I said--I paid to play and reserve the right to voice my concerns. Yes, I know I always have the option of not playing at all. My complaint was with MT2, not the game itself. ATB has 550 player capacity and the opportunities are plentiful in that game world. I started the thread because the situation in this game world is not tenable and the capacity on this game world should be reduced.

About JetBlue, I can't just say "Oh, I'll start at ATL and beat xxx at their game". JetBlue started with ~130 million USD, 75 slots at JFK handed to them, and an order for 75 brand new A320s that started arriving barely 10 months after the airline was announced. In this game, it's just not possible to start up and sit for 5 years until your first brand new A320 arrives without going bankrupt. I'm not suggesting that 130 million and 75 A320s is the only viable business model and I'm not expecting everyone joining an established game world to be the next JetBlue, but my point was a start up scenario where you can expand out to 100+ aircraft should at least be possible--if you have the skill to pull it off. As ucfknightryan pointed out, it is. US International Airlines shows that I'm just plain wrong about the potential opportunities. Back to the drawing board...

 

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