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Author Topic: [ok] Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips  (Read 811 times)

Offline mramelet

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[ok] Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« on: June 09, 2010, 09:36:26 AM »
Hi,
I have not seen any logic regarding colonies/ethnic or "close" countries (in terms of language for example).
Let me take an example.
The island of Reunion, close by Madagascar (Africa) is a french departement. Its main airport is Saint Denis (RUN). In real life, it has many flights per day to Paris, and also several to major french cities (Lyon, Marseille, Toulouse). The demand is very important, and a company (Air Austral) even bought 2 A380 for this route.
If I look at AirWaySim, there are 280 passengers estimated for CDG-RUN, against... 330 for LHR-RUN!
And 20 passengers for RUN-LYS, while 777 or 330 are frequently connecting the 2nd french city and this french island
This is  unrealistic, and makes me think that this is not at all implemented.
This is the easiest example, as it is an actual french departement (like Hawaii is a US State).
But there are more complex situations. Old colonies, but also countries sharing the same language. Demand is much higher between Madrid/Barcelona and South America than from CDG or FRA.
US cities are far better connected to UK cities than the rest of Europe.
Montreal is very well connected to French cities. Same for many countries in West and North Africa (Senegal, Ivory Coast, Algeria, Tunisia).
All (mostly) because they share the same language (which reflects very often an old "colony").
The 3rd thing I'm thinking about is "ethnic" demand. Countries where immigration has been very important, bringing back frequently many people in their native country. It is very often old colonies as well, but not always. But the definition starts to be tuff there!

Wouldn't it be possible to add official language to a city, and give some kind of "boost" if cities share the same language?
That's the easiest solution I see, and that would cover most of scenarios from my perspective.
Going through history is a bit more complex, and I dont even talk about having real data for all the routes in the world :-)

Thanks for reading this

« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 03:42:22 PM by sami »

Offline Sigma

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Re: Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 11:26:17 PM »
Most of the airports in the game just have demand based off their relative size -- so a large airport will have high demand to another large airport, and lesser demand to a smaller airport.  And demand is entirely airport-driven -- i.e. you cannot "steal" passengers away from JFK by flying into LaGuardia, or from Heathrow by flying into London City, or whatever.  And without pulling massive demand tables for every single airport in the world (not gonna happen), sami can't possibly recreate the fact that the demand between a tiny island off Africa and the city of Paris is actually fairly large.  He simply sees it as "small" and has to work from there in regards to what a "small" airport would have for demand into a "large" one.

That is going to one day change.  It's a huge task.  Demand will instead by modeled my area, and be affected by things like localized economic conditions.  It will allow things like seasonality to occur.  You'll be able to "make" an airport large, not be stuck simply recreating whatever demand exists on tables on sami's computer.

And part of that change should most definitely include the things that you mention.  And given where sami wants to take AWS, I think it's very do-able.  He's already going down to socio-political route, he wants to go down the more economic route once the demand model allows more flexibility there, and it shouldn't be terribly difficult to do the cultural things that you describe given everything else he's planning on and the relative ease at which that data is available.  At least as long as he plans for that now.

Offline mramelet

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Re: Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 10:30:31 AM »
Most of the airports in the game just have demand based off their relative size -- so a large airport will have high demand to another large airport, and lesser demand to a smaller airport.  And demand is entirely airport-driven -- i.e. you cannot "steal" passengers away from JFK by flying into LaGuardia, or from Heathrow by flying into London City, or whatever.  And without pulling massive demand tables for every single airport in the world (not gonna happen), sami can't possibly recreate the fact that the demand between a tiny island off Africa and the city of Paris is actually fairly large.  He simply sees it as "small" and has to work from there in regards to what a "small" airport would have for demand into a "large" one.

That is going to one day change.  It's a huge task.  Demand will instead by modeled my area, and be affected by things like localized economic conditions.  It will allow things like seasonality to occur.  You'll be able to "make" an airport large, not be stuck simply recreating whatever demand exists on tables on sami's computer.

And part of that change should most definitely include the things that you mention.  And given where sami wants to take AWS, I think it's very do-able.  He's already going down to socio-political route, he wants to go down the more economic route once the demand model allows more flexibility there, and it shouldn't be terribly difficult to do the cultural things that you describe given everything else he's planning on and the relative ease at which that data is available.  At least as long as he plans for that now.

Yes I understand this is a huge task if you want to make it as realistic as possible.
This is why I was proposing a quite simple solution. Add one(or several) language to a city, and give a boost to airports sharing the same language.
I think this covers most scenarios.
I'm thinking of UK/Canada/USA/Australia/India, France/Quebec/Africa/Caribean, Spain/South America Portugal/Brazil.

Of course, the more it will be realistic, the better it would be, but that would be a decent good start.

The other thing I'm thinking about is touristic destinations. Not easy to find a way to estimate it though :-)

Offline Sami

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Offline Sami

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Re: Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012, 04:22:53 PM »
For the new demand model, I would need data on country relations. In other words, listing of countries and their "relation" converted into a numerical factor.

Like USA - Cuba: "0.1" (= demand factor)
or East Germany - West Germany: 0, prior reunification etc.

There is some such data already, andnin use already too, but it would have to be extended. Volunteers?

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012, 04:28:37 PM »
Volunteers?

Don't you have Jona (et al.) for such things?  :P
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Jona L.

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Re: Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2012, 07:06:38 PM »
For the new demand model, I would need data on country relations. In other words, listing of countries and their "relation" converted into a numerical factor.

Like USA - Cuba: "0.1" (= demand factor)
or East Germany - West Germany: 0, prior reunification etc.

There is some such data already, andnin use already too, but it would have to be extended. Volunteers?

Am in for this as well, where do you want the data directed to?

Don't you have Jona (et al.) for such things?  :P

City Based demand thingy is a bit different, alex!

Offline Sami

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Re: Current/Old colonies, Ethnic and "language" trips
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 03:42:10 PM »
Data on this has now been added and will be used in any new game worlds.

 

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