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Author Topic: Longhaul Profits?  (Read 1537 times)

unsaid

  • Former member
Longhaul Profits?
« on: June 01, 2010, 08:13:40 AM »
so, I just got my first longhaul plane, a 777-200. I thought I would fly from Honolulu to Johannesburg, the demand is 300 pax per day. The round trip takes just more than two and a half days, so with one plane, I can only fly two times to Johannesburg.
I know everyone's gonna say I should increase frequency, I know, I will do that, but I can't find any used 777-200s on the used market, but I will eventually.
However, I am worried that even when I fill the demand by using three planes, I am not gonna make enough profit.

By the way, I am flying via an australian airport as my plane's range is only 5600 nm and the total distance is 10000 nm. My route image is still low, about 50.
Also, the first leg has a total of 93 pax on board and the return leg has 146. They both depart at reasonable hours, why can that be? Do the departing time at the tech stop count? It can' be, can it? 

Airbuseric

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2010, 10:40:33 AM »
Thats a VERY long flight and therefore very uneconomical! try someting thats within 4000nm and fly there daily!
To fill up the plane you have to market your route and lower your price to attract passengers!

Justice

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2010, 11:45:27 AM »
Maybe ultra long flight needs a more comfortable seat configuration.

Offline RushmoreAir

  • Members
  • Posts: 887
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2010, 02:14:30 PM »
Your RI is your problem.  You usually can't make a profit until it becomes 100.

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2010, 03:18:44 PM »
Your RI is your problem.  You usually can't make a profit until it becomes 100.

Really??
From what I saw in ATB, you can still have a LF of 60%-70% even tough the RI is below 10. And that value of LF is making more money than all the expenses of the airline.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2010, 06:17:51 PM »
Route image is not helping. The tech stop hurts too. Though I do have to say VLH and ULH routes are tough to operate. They are very expensive, fuel wise.

Another thing is F/C pax. VLH and UVH routes require strong C/F class demand. 4F - 25C on the slowest day (SUN/WEDS) is the min you you need to make a route work. Y just doesn't cut it at that range.

I would look into flying something within range of the 772. Theres plenty of sub 4000nm routes to the US/Canada/Mexico.

Your aircraft would be more profitable that way.



Talentz

unsaid

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2010, 07:57:15 AM »
thanks everyone for the advice. I stopped the route and put my 777-200s into Honolulu- Eastern port routes within 4000 nm. They seem to be profitable in this. However, it hurts to realize that I could have done this with my 30 A300-600Rs. Now Ihave to wait like three years to get rid of these 777-200s to get a new type of plane without reaching the 4th type in my fleet.

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2010, 08:28:44 PM »
Simply too long of a flight.  The flight takes 2.5 days; therefore you'd have to make 2.5x what you'd make on one daily flight.

If you can fly HNL to CLT each day and get $100k in ticket sales, your Johannesburg flight would have to make $250k to make up for the time it takes to get there and back in 2.5 days.

-Matt

castelino009

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2010, 10:32:24 PM »
You can still have a decent load factor when you open a new route. Few imp factors there are a) time of dep/arr b) price (40% + lower to rack rates) c) seat config

As others said try flying into EU or even Africa (north) you will make helluva money with that. Try not be the one to serve the remote  or underserved (ultra long haul routes). People here leave it untouched for a  reason and I hope you got the answer why :).

cheers
VJC

Offline fauzi

  • Members
  • Posts: 171
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2010, 02:43:55 AM »
Usually one of the main things that will eat up your profit on long haul routes are fuel prices and lease costs. Leasing costs are usually really expensive compared to what you're making. Right now some of my long haul routes with LF 80% are making about 100k, but when I own the plane it makes about 900k. Buying a plane is expensive, but you usually get your money back after 8 years or so. In your case, the fuel stop over is killing you. You can try bringing your CI up and then raise prices.

unsaid

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2010, 07:38:02 AM »
my longhaul adventures are not over. I am flying from Honolulu to Gatwick, Rome, Orly and Istanbul with my A300-600Rs. There are no competitors, my RI is 100, CI is 80, daily frequencies, except on Sunday or Saturday maybe. the problem is still there: I am not making enough profit. Those A300s would make like 1.2 million in sold tickets and half of that as profit(before marketing and staff etc) on shorthaul routes. What am I doing wrong?

castelino009

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2010, 09:40:21 AM »
my longhaul adventures are not over. I am flying from Honolulu to Gatwick, Rome, Orly and Istanbul with my A300-600Rs. There are no competitors, my RI is 100, CI is 80, daily frequencies, except on Sunday or Saturday maybe. the problem is still there: I am not making enough profit. Those A300s would make like 1.2 million in sold tickets and half of that as profit(before marketing and staff etc) on shorthaul routes. What am I doing wrong?

how can you fly A300-600R from HNL to IST ???? 7000+ in A300-600R?? I guess may be the same issue with thses routes too , flight is way too long. If ur RI is 100 why dont you raise your prices.

VJC

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 09:33:07 PM »
my longhaul adventures are not over. I am flying from Honolulu to Gatwick, Rome, Orly and Istanbul with my A300-600Rs. There are no competitors, my RI is 100, CI is 80, daily frequencies, except on Sunday or Saturday maybe. the problem is still there: I am not making enough profit. Those A300s would make like 1.2 million in sold tickets and half of that as profit(before marketing and staff etc) on shorthaul routes. What am I doing wrong?

Your flights are way too long.  You'd make more money on routes in the 3,000 to 4,000 range.

Offline [ATA] - lilius

  • Members
  • Posts: 1650
Re: Longhaul Profits?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2010, 12:37:19 AM »
The load factor is too low to make a profit. Very few planes can make profit before 60% LF. Have you checked any route with a higher LF at least around 80%?

 

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