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Author Topic: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK  (Read 1352 times)

Offline alexgv1

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Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« on: May 19, 2010, 09:06:38 PM »
I was looking at some routes and came across this between Birmingham EGBB and London Gatwick EGKK.

I'm not sure if Atlantic Express is using this to hog slots or try and throw them off the route but the demand is 110 daily and they are putting on at least 400 seats which is 4x daily demand therefore breach in rules.

Just to quote the rules:

Quote
Airline may not supply over 200% of the estimated passenger demand on any route.


http://www.airwaysim.com/game/Routes/Planning/EGBB/EGKK

Could you take a look at it please?
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline carrisi

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 04:06:17 AM »

Some slots came free at LHR and I just put parked them briefly into this route (for 24 hours) while I looked into which routes would make money. I abandoned this route again (EGLL-EGBB) a while ago.

The problem in this game is you have to fly the slots within a time period, or you lose them. For airports with scarce slots like LHR, if you have to stop playing the game for 24-48 hours (real time), you have to park the slots somewhere until you get back.

Actually, I am a bit surprised at the response given it is such a minor route!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 04:10:27 AM by carrisi »

Offline Sigma

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 04:57:52 AM »
The problem in this game is you have to fly the slots within a time period, or you lose them. For airports with scarce slots like LHR, if you have to stop playing the game for 24-48 hours (real time), you have to park the slots somewhere until you get back.

That's not a "problem", it's to keep people from hoarding slots.

And putting planes on a route like you did to grab up all the slots you possibly can is also explicitly against the rules.  Sami doesn't even give warnings for that infraction, he skips right to shutting down the routes if not the airline.  Note the rule below:

Quote
The airline is also forbidden to acquire aircraft and route them so that the only purpose is to get airport slots and preserve them for future use. In practise this would mean routing aircraft to airports and routes that provide no profit, or by clearly oversupplying the estimated pax demand, and later switching the routes to other airports when more suitable aircraft equipment is available.

Offline Sami

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 05:31:05 AM »
Affirm. You can not, even temporarily, route planes so that the only mean is to keep the slots. Nor you can oversupply a route, whatever the reason.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 05:53:13 AM »
So does that mean your going to free up some LHR slots? I pulled some 777s off the used market just now...

Help a broth'a out Sami!  ;D


-Talentz

Offline JonnyAngel

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 06:23:23 AM »
Hey Sami,

Glad I caught this thread, because I had a question about this. Are there any rules around general over supply. Say three airlines flying one route. For arguments sake lets say the demand is 10 a day, and the combined seats available between the three is 50. That's allowed right? And its every airline for itself in that situation  (i.e. drop prices, increase marketing, etc, etc.)?


ucfknightryan

  • Former member
Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 10:21:42 AM »
Hey Sami,

Glad I caught this thread, because I had a question about this. Are there any rules around general over supply. Say three airlines flying one route. For arguments sake lets say the demand is 10 a day, and the combined seats available between the three is 50. That's allowed right? And its every airline for itself in that situation  (i.e. drop prices, increase marketing, etc, etc.)?



I believe that would be fine as long as no one airline was supplying more than 20 seats...

Offline Runner

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 12:23:32 PM »
An airline is allowed to supply up to 200% of the daily demand. If three airlines have a combined capacity of 50 seats, I think neither one of them is oversupplying.

Offline Sami

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 02:15:07 PM »
Each airline is (of course) counted separately. But alliances are counted as once..

Grimvisage

  • Former member
Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2010, 08:07:29 PM »
Each airline is (of course) counted separately. But alliances are counted as once..

Could you clarify that, please? For example, say I'm HQed in Atlanta, and my alliance mate is HQed in Madrid. We each have one flight per day to each other's airports, and another competitor creates a daily route. So, my mate's and my combined available seats are measured against the competitor's when determining illegal oversupply? I think I must be misinterpreting this.

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2010, 08:41:19 PM »
If you and your Madrid mate each supply 100 each and the demand on the route is under 100, then you are oversupplying the route because you're counted together as an alliance. Whatever any third-party, not allied with you, supplies on the route is irrelevant to you.

I hope that helps.

Auerbacs

Grimvisage

  • Former member
Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2010, 08:56:20 PM »
If you and your Madrid mate each supply 100 each and the demand on the route is under 100, then you are oversupplying the route because you're counted together as an alliance. Whatever any third-party, not allied with you, supplies on the route is irrelevant to you.

Ok, so, if that's the case, then my mate and I are in violation of the rules? Or is it just not good for business?

Offline Sigma

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Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2010, 09:31:38 PM »
Ok, so, if that's the case, then my mate and I are in violation of the rules? Or is it just not good for business?

Without knowing the number of seats you're providing and the demand, one can't see if it's a violation of the rules or not.

But, let's say demand is 100/day.  

If you supply 200, that's okay.
If you supply 100 and your "ally" supplies 100, that's okay.  
If you supply 200 and your ally supplies anything at all, that's not okay.  You're now supplying more than 200% of the demand as an Alliance.

Very simply, the rules is:  No single airline or Alliance can supply more than 200% of demand on a route.  Whatever someone else supplies outside of your alliance is a moot point.

I'm sure if you're supplying something like 210% it's okay.  Just don't be doing 200% each or even 150% each.

Grimvisage

  • Former member
Re: Report Seat Dumping EGBB-EGKK
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2010, 08:31:17 AM »
Ok, good. That made much more sense.  :) Thank you.

 

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