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Author Topic: Another thread about the used aircraft market...  (Read 1653 times)

orionmco

  • Former member
Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« on: May 12, 2010, 10:00:50 PM »
14 planes available with 100+ seats and all are Soviet made... Only 7 available in the 51-100 range and half of those are Soviet made.

Not sure if I am looking at the wrong time or what.  Does the list at least refresh once a day or...?  I have waited several days hoping for another BAe-146 to add to my fleet.  Guess I just keep missing out?  Even if I did choose to go with something else there really isn't anything out there worth grabbing.  I guess someone has to give those Soviet rust buckets some lovin'! :P

P.s.  I posted just to make sure there wasn't something wrong with the market refreshing.  I don't expect to have an unlimited pool to select from but sheesh ???
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 10:05:09 PM by orionmco »

mikk_13

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2010, 10:13:09 PM »
I feel your pain. I've been waiting 2 days for a 747 to come up. So far nothing.....

orionmco

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2010, 10:15:25 PM »
One just popped up...!  Not kidding.  Quick go grab it!  :P

orionmco

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2010, 10:19:41 PM »
I just paid off my initial loan instead of grabbing another plane.  This game takes a lot of patience ;)  I'm really not trying to complain here so I hope you don't get the wrong idea Sami.  Really enjoying playing the game :)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2010, 10:25:28 PM »
Boeing and Airbus are sold out in one Minute, DC/MD in 1-2 minutes.

So there's nearly no chance to get an used aircraft if you don't sit at your PC all day (I sit there and only get 70% of the aircraft I want).

Dookz

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2010, 10:31:43 PM »
When the new world opens up, there will be more attention in the used market there than here :)

Offline Sami

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  • Posts: 14536
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2010, 10:38:41 PM »
Also note that there will not necessarily be let's say "five Boeings, four Airbuses and two BAe's" on every market refresh. The selection of aircraft types it puts up there is purely random and it is only looking at the total number of aircraft for sale, it must be at least XX (where XX is comparable to number of players in the game world, and also partly of how long the game has progressed).

The ones being sold at the market for long enough without being leased are taken off. First their price is reduced, and after that they are retracted from sale. If the sale fails 3-4 times, the broker will scrap the plane (= hopeless to sell/lease). Most of the russkies have not yet rotated thru this process I believe so that's why there's so many of them, and naturally of course because the "good ones" are leased out very quickly.

(I do acknowledge that the present is not the best situation ... there's a thread in feature rq forum about this, pls pop ideas to that thread)

orionmco

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2010, 10:43:20 PM »
Thanks Sami.

ksliu9

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 05:54:54 AM »
Or.... try to use those Russian metals for less than 1 year (before C check), then terminate the lease and lease another one!

nlgravity

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2010, 05:43:39 AM »
Question: Is there a pricing model for used (high-demand) equipment? When all the boeing/airbus less than 17 yr old get picked up immediatly, do the brokers raise prices until only the bigger carriers can afford them?
I bought a 747-400 for 180mm and 230mm (virtually identical), is the price random or did I get ripped off?!

Offline Daveos

  • Members
  • Posts: 2983
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2010, 10:53:10 AM »
Question: Is there a pricing model for used (high-demand) equipment? When all the boeing/airbus less than 17 yr old get picked up immediatly, do the brokers raise prices until only the bigger carriers can afford them?
I bought a 747-400 for 180mm and 230mm (virtually identical), is the price random or did I get ripped off?!

The market rates are dynamic to reflect high or low demand for all models on the used and new markets.  High demand model prices do go up, but if a particular used aircraft is not sold for a while, it is removed by the broker and then either returns in a better condition, at a lower price or both.  New aircraft lease prices also reflect the demand too.  I'd imagine that either your cheaper 747-400 had been on the market a while or your more expensive 747-400 had been released in a time of high demand.

wtdawg

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2010, 02:25:15 PM »
14 planes available with 100+ seats and all are Soviet made... Only 7 available in the 51-100 range and half of those are Soviet made.

Not sure if I am looking at the wrong time or what.  Does the list at least refresh once a day or...?  I have waited several days hoping for another BAe-146 to add to my fleet.  Guess I just keep missing out?  Even if I did choose to go with something else there really isn't anything out there worth grabbing.  I guess someone has to give those Soviet rust buckets some lovin'! :P

P.s.  I posted just to make sure there wasn't something wrong with the market refreshing.  I don't expect to have an unlimited pool to select from but sheesh ???
At one point I had about a third of the active Bae's in the game. I'm transitioning over this next year to 734's, so mine will be coming on the market.  I have three leases expiring in late Oct, one in Nov, one in Jan and one in July 01.

Not sure how long it takes from giving up the plane to having it on the used market, but I wanted to let you know that at least some of them will be coming available. 

Offline JonnyAngel

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  • Posts: 179
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2010, 05:58:27 PM »
I have waited several days hoping for another BAe-146 to add to my fleet.  Guess I just keep missing out?

Hehehe, sorry orionmco, I think I've been beating you to the punch. I've been pouncing on B46s as soon as they come up. They're like GOLD. Maybe time to start ordering new. I'm waiting for  enough cash then adding in the Avros. :-)

Clipper

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2010, 08:09:16 AM »
88 Cessna 208B Grand Caravan hopefully the Broker take them away so that other a/c come up.  Only 30 a/c with range more than 1000m and only 17 with more than 110 seats 14 russians and a Concord and 707s.

In this game the used market is really hard...


We will see what will come up...!

Clipper

Offline m320au

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Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2010, 01:39:50 PM »
I'm really not trying to complain here so I hope you don't get the wrong idea Sami.  Really enjoying playing the game :)

Me too - I think this is a great game. Firstly, it's quite realistic now that you can't take over the world with a single rust bucket DC10 operating long haul. The adjustments in revenue have been very good - in reality, who starts an airline with a single DC10 - apart from Orbis, who doesn't really count.

Second, the shortage of aircraft is quite realistic for the end of the 1990's. Capacity existed everywhere but it was impossible to get a decent profitable aircraft to fly your routes. Order books were extremely long, and you bet the value of your company based on your vision for the future.

I for one am enjoying watching airlines compromise their fleet commonality and lease in pieces of junk to fulfull short term greed.  So much so that i've set up a deck chair next to the runway to watch pieces fall off my competitor's aircraft as they depart. Continental, you know who you are. Fleet commonality and patient expansion is the way forward here I think.



 

Offline JonnyAngel

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Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2010, 05:48:40 PM »
Fleet commonality and patient expansion is the way forward here I think.

I'm with you on that m320, and that's exactly what I'm going to do. My first airline got routed cuz I was going slow and steady and competitors at my base were going full bore. They knocked me out first, but I have to say I took a little satisfaction in watching a couple go t*** (pardon my french) up a little while later.  :D

Okay, separate but related question that hopefully one of you can help with.  So I've got fairly good condition A/Cs going right now and am patiently watching the used market to snap up more as they pop up. Problem: my C-checks for my current fleet are all around the same time, and I want to have additional AC in the fleet so that when one is out for 10-14 days, my income takes a hit, but not tooo huge a hit. At the same time, I need to have enough money in the bank to pay for the maintenance when it comes up, but because I'm still fairly new and have been pumping money into getting more aircraft, I can't take out loans to cover the cost; its a vicious cycle. Sure you get the gist...

thoughts?

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2010, 06:05:47 PM »
I wouldn't worry about it, honestly. 2 weeks of no income on an aircraft shouldn't effect your bottom line that much. If it does, then it shows how weak your balance sheet is.

If however, you have.. say 5 of 15 aircraft all hitting C-checks the same week. That's a different story. I would suggest early C-checks to spread them out a bit. You shouldn't have problems with 1 A/C in heavy maint... but any more then 3-4 and there could be problems.  ;)



Hope this helps.


Talentz

Offline mark320

  • Members
  • Posts: 101
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2010, 10:40:22 PM »
When an airline goes bankrupt do its planes go on to the resale market? I have lots of problems to expand as I have delayed new aircraft deliveries and no used planes of the types I need! Also what does stored aircraft in the global statistics mean?

regards,

Offline Sigma

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  • Posts: 1920
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2010, 11:37:34 PM »
When an airline goes bankrupt do its planes go on to the resale market? I have lots of problems to expand as I have delayed new aircraft deliveries and no used planes of the types I need! Also what does stored aircraft in the global statistics mean?

regards,


Stored aircraft are those that the brokers are holding, waiting to be put up for sale.  This is done so that there's always an option for used planes entering the market, whereas if they all went up at once, they'd be sucked up in a couple days and anyone joining afterwards would be out of luck.

And, yes, the planes from anyone going bankrupt do enter the market.  They go into Storage and come out some time later.  That's why you'll see some virtually brand-new planes out there sometimes.

Offline mark320

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  • Posts: 101
Re: Another thread about the used aircraft market...
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2010, 06:44:29 AM »
Understood, many thanks. Now if i can get hold of a couple of them.......... :(

 

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