AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Lack of aircrafts to lease  (Read 2182 times)

dubAUT

  • Former member
Lack of aircrafts to lease
« on: May 07, 2010, 08:01:51 PM »
Hey folks,

MT#2 starts to become really boaring. Some large companies orderd a bulk of 50+ aircrafts and the small ones have to wait for more than one year to get a free production slot.

Please tell me, how a small airline with just one aircraft should be able to expand if there is no possibillity to expand? I used to work in the airline business for serveral years but I *never* faced a situation like that.

What's going on? Is it just me or is there a slightly uncomfortable balance between very small and very larg companies?

SulphurTX

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2010, 08:04:41 PM »
Same problem for me... A shortage of modern planes, only old ones available... Not realistic at all.

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2010, 08:22:20 PM »
wah? 

This game is not supposed to be living off of the used market.

With slower order/build times for everyone that means fewer airlines can get into the leasing biz early. 

Wait it our for another human week and you will start to see many airlines which are unwilling to lease used planes because most of the new ones are not in the same flight group and would thusly impact their fleet commonality.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2010, 08:34:32 PM »
Unfortunately thats what its come to.

dubAUT

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 08:36:36 PM »
This game is not supposed to be living off of the used market.
I thought the game is supposed to be a *simulation*. I never heard that in real life a new airline was not able to lease out as many aircrafts as the needed. There a lot of airlines that just operate leased aircrafts and don't own one at all.

With slower order/build times for everyone that means fewer airlines can get into the leasing biz early.
I didn't know, that this game is supposed to be a simulation of leasing companies... There could be more virtual leasing companies at all.

Wait it our for another human week and you will start to see many airlines which are unwilling to lease used planes because most of the new ones are not in the same flight group and would thusly impact their fleet commonality.
If the small airlines have to wait, than the big ones will open new hubs at their HQ airports and the small ones are out of business.

SulphurTX

  • Former member
questions about the market
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 08:51:03 PM »
In other games in AWS you see that big players are leasing out the almost new planes for very high prices, but the difference between price and value is always big in this game. I must say that I really like the balance in the market with used and new planes, but I wonder how it will be in real life?

There are more than 500 airlines companies in the world, but there is not shortage on airplanes?

And is a production waitlist of 500+ airplanes normal in real life?

And the Dutch company (I'm from Holland) Fokker would still exist if it had order like in this game... A pity!

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 08:58:58 PM »
I thought the game is supposed to be a *simulation*. I never heard that in real life a new airline was not able to lease out as many aircrafts as the needed. There a lot of airlines that just operate leased aircrafts and don't own one at all.
I didn't know, that this game is supposed to be a simulation of leasing companies... There could be more virtual leasing companies at all.
If the small airlines have to wait, than the big ones will open new hubs at their HQ airports and the small ones are out of business.

First off, welcome to the game.  I can understand where you are coming from.  You should have been here last year if you were going to worry about where we are now.

You DONT have 500 start up airlines hitting the used market in real life either.  There needs to be some sort of expectation of supply v demand early on.

New/large airlines really aren't getting planes.  I may get 2-4 new ones per human day.   We are all in the same boat.  I don't get used planes unless I see the odd errant A310. 

This game wasn't meant to be an MMO where there is always tons of stuff to do.   It is also not priced that way either.

Yes, AWS isn't a leasing company game primarily, but can be.   If I wanted to put some purchase orders in (which is still too soon in this world because airlines are still starting up) I could do so.  I have almost 250m in the bank and could purchase a few 737s or something similar but I'd rather focus on my long term goals.

Small airlines really wont go out of business since ABCBA routes aren't allowed any more.


dubAUT

  • Former member
Re: questions about the market
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 09:05:23 PM »
And is a production waitlist of 500+ airplanes normal in real life?
I think, that a production waitlist of 500+ aircrafts is realistic. For example there is a total order of 6.546 for the A320 familiy whilest the number of total devlieries is 4.254. BUT: I don't think, that the production slots for one customer are that close that there is no possibility for other/new customers to get an aircraft erlier. What I want to point out is: If FR orders a bulk of 200 B738 and another airline like to get even a B738 they don't have to wait until FR got delivered all 200 aircrafts.

The other thing is, that in real life most of the bulk orders are made by leasing companies what means, that those aircrafts will be available for a larger number of airlines.

dubAUT

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 09:17:00 PM »
You should have been here last year if you were going to worry about where we are now.
I'm really happy about, that I found this game and I really like participate. BUT: There should be space for critics and input ;-)

You DONT have 500 start up airlines hitting the used market in real life either.
That's all I was talking about: Since the game didn't start in the early ninetien-thirties there should be more plains on the used market from 'virtual' companies.

New/large airlines really aren't getting planes. I may get 2-4 new ones per human day. We are all in the same boat. I don't get used planes unless I see the odd errant A310.
I would have to wait nearly a (human) week to get a new aircraft. Since you've more than one you can make good profit and order a bulk of them. With just one aircraft I have to wait a year to save enough mony to pay the order confirmation and than I have to wait another year until I get the plain. We are in the same ocean, but not in the same boat I would say ;-)

This game wasn't meant to be an MMO where there is always tons of stuff to do. It is also not priced that way either.
So I don't understand why sami is asking about suggestions that 'autopilote management' is not longer possible?

Small airlines really wont go out of business since ABCBA routes aren't allowed any more.
I hope so :-)

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 09:19:04 PM »
I just looked and saw a few Dash8 300s... those are good planes..

You just need to also know that Airbus/Boeing aren't the only good planes out there.
 
I had to order planes that I wont get for almost 2 MONTHS!.   This game is all about waiting.  Sadly, sometimes it can seem boring.

Offline mtnlion

  • Members
  • Posts: 479
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 09:31:28 PM »
You just need to also know that Airbus/Boeing aren't the only good planes out there.
... This game is all about waiting.  Sadly, sometimes it can seem boring.

+1!

I don't want to complain but why is it so that all the airlines want to operate A320 or B737 from the beginning? I currently have 20+ B727s that are avg. of 15yrs old and they are as profitable as the new A320-100's I have! Another example in my fleet are the DC8-63s which are more profitable than the new B763ERs I have.

It's just an excuse to say: "I can't grow as there are only old planes in the used market!" Be patient, order some older planes first and  keep your CI is high enough.  :)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 09:34:39 PM by mtnlion »

dubAUT

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 09:48:44 PM »
I don't want to complain but why is it so that all the airlines want to operate A320 or B737 from the beginning?
At the beginning you neither you've lot of money nor a good CI. Since that you must operate modern aircrafts. For example I wasn't able to affort to operate a DC-9 at the beginning, because the spendings for fuel und maintains are very high.

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 09:52:46 PM »
At the beginning you neither you've lot of money nor a good CI. Since that you must operate modern aircrafts. For example I wasn't able to affort to operate a DC-9 at the beginning, because the spendings for fuel und maintains are very high.

that may be on you and not the a/c.

A DC9 should be flying a redeye and up to three more flights per day.

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14535
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2010, 10:08:29 PM »
Like already posted at nearly this very same point of EVERY large game world so far - there will not be an "unlimited" supply of used planes, nor extraordinary high production rates for new planes.

The startup situation of putting X number of airlines into an 'empty' word is the thing that baffles here and is the source for all this 'grrrgrr'... There are plans for the startup but they are not that easy to implement.

This is part of the sim at it's present stage and players just have to live with it but as mentioned changes are possible. I just ordered BaE 146's. Wait was only 3 game months! So think outside of the box. Everone does not need a A320..


(I also "admire" the users who end up their every post in "that is not realistic", without any other facts.. really, eh?)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 10:12:12 PM by sami »

Offline highways1

  • Members
  • Posts: 145
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2010, 10:17:12 PM »
Like already posted at nearly this very same point of EVERY large game world so far - there will not be an "unlimited" supply of used planes, nor extraordinary high production rates for new planes.

The startup situation of putting X number of airlines into an 'empty' word is the thing that baffles here and is the source for all this 'grrrgrr'... There are plans for the startup but they are not that easy to implement.

This is part of the sim at it's present stage and players just have to live with it. I just ordered BaE 146's. Wait was only 3 game months! So think outside of the box. Everone does not need a A320..


(I also "admire" the users who end up their every post in "that is not realistic", without any other facts.. really, eh?)

I feel bad for you Sami  ;), every gameworld this comes up. You're correct though, there are not planes floating around that magically become available and people would probably still complain. There have been several changes to the used market since last year that have balanced it out but it will always be first-come first-serve as is life. I admit that I am a pretty heavy user of the used market as I like to get my cash flow going and then order new planes about 1.5-2 years in. The refresh times are randomized and there are limits on the number that can be obtained in a day and in a week. For those that are frustrated, I would get whatever half-decent planes I could, build up your cash-flow, and order new planes. Eventually airlines will start leasing out their first-generation planes but since the game mechanics are slower now it will take more time to get to this point.

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14535
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2010, 10:20:52 PM »
Oh yes, one thing that I feel would make used market better is somesort of balancing on the used a/c buying. So that constantly reloading and keeping watch on the market would be less beneficial than now. And it would still work when checking it let's say only twice a day...

dubAUT

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2010, 10:27:57 PM »
A DC9 should be flying a redeye and up to three more flights per day.
Sorry, I was wrong: It was an DC-8

dubAUT

  • Former member
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2010, 10:32:27 PM »
(I also "admire" the users who end up their every post in "that is not realistic", without any other facts.. really, eh?)
I'm sorry, if you feel bothered by my postings, I just try to help to improve the game. I always said, that I'm really happy that I found this game in the endless of the Internet and since I'm software developer I know that there is a lot of hard work, sweat and blood behind.

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14535
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2010, 10:39:12 PM »
(I wasn't actually referring to you there.)

Offline highways1

  • Members
  • Posts: 145
Re: Lack of aircrafts to lease
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2010, 11:18:13 PM »
I'm probably as guilty as anyone, but it depends on where you're HQ'ed and what you want to get out of the game. I'm at KATL and I have one competitor who is bigger than me but has a lot of old planes so I try to keep up as best I can. Of course, you have to eventually bite the bullet and save money and get new planes because otherwise your maintenance costs will get out of control.

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.