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Author Topic: So, I'm tanking... now what?  (Read 4259 times)

Offline swiftus27

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 04:23:08 PM »
can you also post the route planning screen

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 04:30:55 PM »
I won't get into details for mine because I've already bankrupted that airline but I was flying Auckland-Singapore Changi (4538nm) 6 times a week with a 767-300ER. It may have been making a little money, but because I started off with it from the beginning, it was my only plane. Alone, it certainly didn't cover the fixed staffing costs and I just slowly went downhill despite decent LFs. And by the way, when I said that this game had a short-haul bias, I meant ATB, not AWS in general. And I think that that was more the case because we started with enough money to get 2 or 3 good short-haul planes (737s for instance) but obviously only enough for 1 long-haul. Especially with 767's limited capacity, my one-plane long-haul strategy was severely flawed and did poorly against my rival who snapped up transtasman (about 1500nm) routes with 737s and such.

Dookz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2010, 04:38:44 PM »
can you also post the route planning screen

Sure.






Dookz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 04:41:59 PM »
MNL-AMS I think this is what you mean :P


Talentz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 05:09:36 PM »
Hmm ok, so your basically doing everything right..

Your incomes a little on the low side. Im sure its because the plane is flying 70% full....

How are your prices? Are they still very low? Your a bit older since the first day of the game, try raising your prices to default (-4%Y) (-5%C) (-8%F). See if that brings in more income.... Also, I assume you still have standard config? Have you thought about re-configuring the aircraft? Mmm the 763 doesn't have strong choices.. but.. try a 4/30/192 configuration. Strong C class will help off set the less Y class seats. Even with standard seats, you should run roughly 75% F class, mid 70% C and 80%'ish Y.


Let me know what happens.


Talentz

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2010, 05:30:33 PM »
Reconfiguring can be rather cost-prohibitive for a new airline unfortunately

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2010, 05:37:23 PM »
I reconfigured my 742....




Talentz

Online Sami

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2010, 08:08:52 PM »
I suspect one problem may be in the 'pax comfort' sincd that route is very long and standard seating isn't very appreciated on longer than ..5-7h sectors.

Perhaps try some 2000-3500nm sectors instead with 767

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2010, 08:44:42 PM »
Perhaps Sami. But then making the seating better would increase his LFs but have him carrying the same number of passengers (just more satisfied ones). So it seems that the real problem is just flying the 767 on such a long haul.

Does anybody have an idea on how profitable ultra-long haul routes (around 10000nm) are? It seems like it gets more and more difficult to profit as the routes get longer (after 3000nm or so). Am I incorrect?

Auerbacs

Offline Sigma

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2010, 11:00:33 PM »
Perhaps Sami. But then making the seating better would increase his LFs but have him carrying the same number of passengers (just more satisfied ones). So it seems that the real problem is just flying the 767 on such a long haul.

Does anybody have an idea on how profitable ultra-long haul routes (around 10000nm) are? It seems like it gets more and more difficult to profit as the routes get longer (after 3000nm or so). Am I incorrect?

Auerbacs

Yeah, I'd say you've got it totally backwards.

Just take a look at the richest airlines in the current and any past games -- they are always primarily long-range international carriers.  The key to massive amounts of cash is long-haul routes because the overhead is so minimal compared to a frequently-turning short-haul operation.

Now I can't speak to the 767's success on those lanes though as it's not a plane I normaly use, but looking at the figures, it's just too small.  But long-haul is absolutely, without a doubt, the easiest way to literally make more money in this game than you know what to do with.

Ulimately it's density that really matters, not the length of the haul.  Long, thin routes, like real-life, are a tenuous proposition in this game if you try to operate them with 767s or A300s, they just can't get enough passengers to sufficiently surpass that break-even point, while large wide-body aircraft can shatter that break-even point and then the next 250 seats are just straight to the bottomline.  If you can secure a single long-haul route that you can operate several large wide-bodies on, you will make money hand-over-fist.

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2010, 12:06:57 AM »
Fair enough. I understand perfectly well that very successful airlines in the past have employed long-haul strategies. And again, I was speaking specifically about the start of ATB (with its used market and all) rather than generally. I just think that mini airbus's struggles on that route as well as my own experience do suggest that flying smaller aircraft, like the 767, on long-hauls is not as profitable as one might expect. I also wonder how profitable flying 777s and eventually 787s long-haul would be. Perhaps you're less convinced than I am, but I've learned something that will affect my strategy in the future.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2010, 05:33:02 AM »
Perhaps Sami. But then making the seating better would increase his LFs but have him carrying the same number of passengers (just more satisfied ones). So it seems that the real problem is just flying the 767 on such a long haul.

Does anybody have an idea on how profitable ultra-long haul routes (around 10000nm) are? It seems like it gets more and more difficult to profit as the routes get longer (after 3000nm or so). Am I incorrect?

Auerbacs


Yes, as I pointed out the 767 is not a real money maker. Sure, if your routes fit within its seating profile, its the best option. But other then that, a bigger aircraft is just better.

As for ULH routes. I've used the 77L once out of KIX flying max ranged routes.. I BK'd myself trying to fly them. At that range, you need routes with strong F/C class. The typical 5F/25C LH route will not be enough to keep things floating. Operating economics of the aircraft were very harsh. Though I leased not owned. Owning Im sure would bring more to the bottomline... but if your owning all your aircraft... your already at "game end".



Talentz

Dookz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2010, 05:39:21 AM »
When I had saved up enough money 2.2mil just before I start paying leases,  I debated myself to break this gridlock. I should have reconfigured but instead went to lease a new 737-6 aircraft. At that time, the LF for C class was still around 33%, stagnant, and wasn't sure if it was worth the 1mil price to pay to reconfigure.  But soon afterwards, C class started climbing faster. I already BK'd Hopefully I'll catch myself a decent plane that isn't Russian or a 747SP. :) EDIT: I know I have to reconfigure sooner or later but I was afraid it was a little early which I now regret.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 05:48:43 AM by mini airbus »

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2010, 06:44:24 PM »
Why you got to hate on them Tupolevs... ;D

Offline highways1

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2010, 07:05:30 PM »
What does everyone think about 764's? I was thinking of getting some down the line rather than 777's and adding another fleet. I've wanted to get them before but haven't and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them.

Talentz

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2010, 08:40:01 AM »
764ER is a good aircraft. If you already fly the 767 family there's no reason not to fly the 764. Though the A333 does have better range and is a bit faster. Plus a few more seats...

I'll take a 764ER flying within its range vs an A333 on most days :)



Talentz

Offline Daveos

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2010, 12:37:21 AM »
What does everyone think about 764's? I was thinking of getting some down the line rather than 777's and adding another fleet. I've wanted to get them before but haven't and was wondering if anyone has any experience with them.

I had around 60 of them in MT#1 and they were brilliant.  Big profits I found.  And, if you have any routes that necessitate a 767-200 or 767-300 then they offer much more flexibility with fleet commonality than the A330s.

A330s are more aesthetically attractive though  ;)

Offline highways1

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2010, 12:52:19 AM »
I had around 60 of them in MT#1 and they were brilliant.  Big profits I found.  And, if you have any routes that necessitate a 767-200 or 767-300 then they offer much more flexibility with fleet commonality than the A330s.

A330s are more aesthetically attractive though  ;)

Thanks for the responses, they seemed to be solid planes but I just wanted to confirm. My goal is to use 764's on high-density routes to Europe freeing up my 762's and 763's to hit lower-demand long distance routes from KATL.

Offline swiftus27

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Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2010, 12:58:44 AM »

this is honestly why I love this game.  Trial and error.  Sometimes you will make a terrible decision in one game that will take you out (Like ordering 744ds and CRJs on lease)...


twothousandgt

  • Former member
Re: So, I'm tanking... now what?
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2010, 08:08:08 AM »
"I was really disappointed that the 767 long-haul strategy failed so miserably in this game""


I tried flying a 767-200ER from NAN-LAX and it did really poorly. Made a small profit but not enough once the lease kicked in. I have slated the plane for retirement when the lease runs out. Right now it is on NAN-BNE and NAN-AKL. AKL is doing real well even with competition but BNE is poor with no competition >:(

I have a 737-300 flying NAN-MEL and it is doing ok.

I tried 767-200ER on PHX-EZE, the traffic forecast was way above capacity for the A/C, but the profits were...mediocre. Even with 50+ RI, it just wasn't worth the block-to-block time. My advice with the 67 is to stick with 2-3k NM routes with at least 500 daily pax and you should make good profits. Though, ironically, some of the best money I've made so far with it has been on PHX-EGE (446NM) :o

However, it just doesn't compare w/ the 757 for <2k NM routes. Really, unless you have definite need for 4k NM+, you can't beat the 757. Best. Airplane. Ever.

 

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