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Author Topic: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...  (Read 1688 times)

L1011fan

  • Former member
just a bit at this point? I had to just now because I needed to jump on a route. I have 2 737-400's (which is what I really want), but only was able (for the amount of money and the timing especially) to do a DC-9-30 to get on 2 routes that were screaming for service. I only leased the 9 for a year, but just wondered if anyone else has resorted to getting away from fleet commonality just a bit. I don't want to make this a habit, LOL! P.S. I kept checking for the 737-400 the last couple of days and even 727-200s and 737-200s were gone. And I didn't need a 757. Sooo...anyway... :-[

minerva

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 01:07:20 AM »
I think the 737 400s are in particular demand (for obvious reasons).  I've been trying to keep commonality using them, and got so frustrated about not finding any despite checking every twenty minutes or so for two days that I went ahead and ordered a new one.  Not smart, I realized immediately and, of course, then a few hours later saw a beat-up used one which I felt compelled to grab, putting me in big financial hole.   :-[  So now I am wondering if I shouldn't have been such a slave to commonality.  6 of one; half-dozen of the other.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 01:50:10 AM »
I know exactly what you mean!!! And with nearly 600 persons in this game its going to stay bad for awhile. I completely gave up commonality in one game and nothing terrible happened (I think most of the engines were from the same company, but not all of them). I may just go ahead and give up on commonality totally if things don't improve in the next day or so. The savings, even though it adds up, is not that large a sum. So we're both looking for 737-400's, eh? I hope one us or both of us get one by the end of the day tomorrow. Otherwise I'll go with McDonnell Douglas equipment as well. I don't want to, but thats where I may end end up. I'm open to 727-200's and 737-200's too even though they guzzle fuel at a greater rate. But those aren't even available. You have to keep expansion in mind. I sat with one route for days, thank god a busy one and it kept the 2 737-400's I have busy. But I did add a DC-9-30 to jump on a couple of other routes. Also doing C Class seats on all planes. Good luck to you Minerva! :)
 

Offline fauzi

  • Members
  • Posts: 171
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 02:02:45 AM »
Actually it isn't that hard to concentrate on fleet commonality. Biggest factor are the engines. Before 1990s, PW supplied most of the engines, their JTD9 and JTD8 series are used by a number of planes, eg A300, B727, MD80s.

minerva

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 02:10:05 AM »
True -- but the problem with B737-400s is that they don't use PW; the 400s use CFMs which sucks, frankly.

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 02:48:18 AM »
Aye, and there lies the problem. And like I said before, although very helpful, a little mixing of aircraft types is not detrimental. But again, I'm going keep scouting for Boeings.

Offline Sigma

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  • Posts: 1920
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 02:58:43 AM »
Actually it isn't that hard to concentrate on fleet commonality. Biggest factor are the engines. Before 1990s, PW supplied most of the engines, their JTD9 and JTD8 series are used by a number of planes, eg A300, B727, MD80s.

Engine commonality means almost nothing in AWS.  It's hardly worth worrying about really.

Which is kind of bass-ackwards compared to reality.  But it is what it is.

Quote
Aye, and there lies the problem. And like I said before, although very helpful, a little mixing of aircraft types is not detrimental. But again, I'm going keep scouting for Boeings.

And manufacturer commonality means nothing at all.  You get absolutely zero added benefit for sticking with a single manufacturer.  You'll pay no more penalty for operating a A320/767/DC10 fleet than you will operating an A320/330/340 fleet.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 03:01:00 AM by Sigma »

Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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  • Posts: 1047
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 03:06:43 AM »
So the point of fleet commonality is...

jumbo Mouse

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 03:14:03 AM »
 :laugh:

The point............ engine types mean nothing....can cost you 100K per month for different types, but different types of aircraft cost you a bundle and can cost you airline......Look under fleet commonatly under Aircraft, and you can see what additional costs you have to pay for your aircraft each month, engines is relatively cheap, but some aircraft types kill you one time!!!! ;D..........soo the mix will add up for big overheads!

Jm

Grimvisage

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 03:16:49 AM »
That's very true. While you may not get the bonuses for manufacturer or model, you do still get a huge drop in maintenance for multiples of the exact item, and that's certainly helpful considering that most people tend to stick with a few particularly useful models to form the core of their fleet.

GDK

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 09:07:50 AM »
Always get aircraft of the same type, if you can...

The admin fees, training fees and maintenance will cost you alot.
I got 3 A300 asking for $1.5m, 5 B737 asking for $1.1m, 2 MD80 asking for $0.9m and 1 B757 cost $0.9m. These 3 aircraft types grabbed $4.4m from me monthly. If I would have get all 10 MDs or Airbuses then the costs would probably somehere around $2-3m monthly only.

But, things won't happen so smoothly. You'll always find it extremely hard to get your desired aircraft... That is what causing my operating different types of fleet and paying for more... :-\

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 09:14:12 AM »
btw. Someone suggested an automated "used aircraft agent" to refresh nd bid in the market for you.. Didn't find the thread but rethinking that idea may be worth it?

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 09:18:57 AM »
This will lower the chance for poor airlines to get the aircraft they wanted. And yes, I know, at the moment the chance is reduced for everyone without a lot of time and/or a second monitor...

Offline alexgv1

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Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 11:13:44 AM »
btw. Someone suggested an automated "used aircraft agent" to refresh nd bid in the market for you.. Didn't find the thread but rethinking that idea may be worth it?

Yes I think it does sound good because it will save you from having to constantly check the used a/c market and doesn't give those that constantly patrol it an advantage. Would be nice to log in on the morning, and hopefully by that evening/night to have found my next plane I need.

I would assume you can put all the desired parameters you want on the search; e.g. max. weekly lease price, engine type, MTOW, min. condition.
CEO of South Where Airlines (SWA|WH)

Offline Sigma

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  • Posts: 1920
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 01:08:00 PM »
btw. Someone suggested an automated "used aircraft agent" to refresh nd bid in the market for you.. Didn't find the thread but rethinking that idea may be worth it?

I can't find that thread either, but I commented on it...

It's a horribly bad idea unless you can put some big limitations around it.  Allowing people to "bid" on planes assures that those with the most money get the most planes.  Once you get that first plane you'll be making exponentially more money than the 'other guy' so you can bid higher on the next one, and the next one, and the next one.  Once someone loses out they'll lose out forever with zero chance of getting that A320 or whatever there's always going to be someone with more money than them who wants it.

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Is anyone else finding they have to put aside fleet commonality...
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2010, 04:23:57 PM »
I like the idea Sami. Perhaps one could fit it with a bidding system la "Willing to pay up to 625,000 USD per month for A320-200 not older than 10 years old" ... Just a thought.

Generally the used market is risky, as you quickly pay more for a 7 years-old A320 than for a brandnew one on lease fees, as plane prices tend to exceed their values enormously sometimes. This may seem fine at the beginning, but if you face fierce competition that monthly difference of say 100,000 USD or more can make the difference.

Also, don't get used to the high profit margins we currently enjoy. It may all seem workable, as the current attitude seems a bit, any plane, any route - profit! That will not last for very long.

And as soon as we are clinching around at some 7% profit margins (or less), engine comm. can make a difference of some 100,000 USD per month as well. Correct is that the sub-engines do not play any role yet in cost differentiation.

It may be that people clicking F5 regularly may have an advantage; however, that advantage will probably cease after a few days, as deliveries for the first brandnew jets kick in. At least, that is what happened in MT2 after around one week.

So long,
Denis

 

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