AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Base airport feature feedback  (Read 8340 times)

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14536
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Base airport feature feedback
« on: May 02, 2010, 12:14:57 PM »
This is the first world with base airports feature available.. So would be nice to hear comments of it while the game progresses. It is of course very early to say anything about running them in long term or large scale ... but let's open a thread now and you can keep posting..

What I am interested is the ease of growth - does it generate too big airlines too easily? How are all the costs (setup and running costs) factored once you get larger. How's the usability? How 'bad' it would be if 4-leg domestic routes are allowed again (I would suspect a bit of a nightmare in US at least..)



A couple of things that are not yet done but will follow later are:
  a) 'hard' limits on airport size vs. based aircraft. Each airport will have a max number of planes that all airlines combined can base there. For example LHR could have a limit of max 300 planes and no more could be based there since the aprons etc. would be too small. (The exact number will be based on some math formula, real numbers for this is impossible to find)

  b) the date when multiple bases are allowed in EU was when the openskies come into force there, I guess it was 2002 or so. These will be added later, meaning you cannot base into other EU country before that.

  c) adding the other open aviation markets worldwide. There are some others that have started olr are planned.

and also:

   d)  Slot quota for each airline. Each firm can only get certain number of slots for each airport for each month/year in order to avoid excessive growth and slot hogging (ie. Fokker27 times 200 to some high demand destination).


Offline RushmoreAir

  • Members
  • Posts: 887
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2010, 01:46:37 PM »
The Base Feature is great!  The only thing, is that on the airport map (under airport information), it only shows airlines' HQs, not their bases.  It would be nice to see the bases, too.

I think that the so-called slot quota is good, but only with Size 3 airports and larger.  I have my base at KRAP, and there is only one other airline that flies there.  If I was limited in my ability to expand there, no one would take over.

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2010, 02:08:24 PM »
A. The new base feature is really important and good for the game. The impact on strategy and alliances is really big in my opinion and that is positive.

B. Growth has been slowed done and that is a very good thing. It also changes the game in a way that forward-looking actions and decision play a much more important role (e.g. order pipeline). As far as I can see right now after around two game years, those able to order a huge number of used a/c do not have a significant advantage over those having concentrated on the new market, as maintenance and D-checks kick in now. We have also seen a number of big birds fall apart.

C. To open up new base airports, I would, however, like to suggest to increase the prices for doing so. I found the 10m USD to open up shop at Ankara really cheap, as well as the 5 aircrafts needed to move there.

D. Slots are of course still the most decisive issue for growth. I believe that prices for slots should increase a lot, especially as slots get tight and big airlines have advantages over smaller ones. I do not think it would be too much if I had to pay some 1-2m for a new slots at Istanbul right now.

Denis

Offline psw231

  • Members
  • Posts: 295
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2010, 05:27:54 PM »
 Loving 1.2 so far, as for the reintroduction of 4 leg routes it might be good to put a limitation on the size of the B ap on an A-B-C-B-A route,class 4 or lower.

wtdawg

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2010, 05:58:39 PM »
C. To open up new base airports, I would, however, like to suggest to increase the prices for doing so. I found the 10m USD to open up shop at Ankara really cheap, as well as the 5 aircrafts needed to move there.

On the other hand, I found it impossible after operating a mostly regional airline to come up with the money to open a new base airport.  It looks like an easy move for the big boys, but us little operators are on the outside looking in.

Offline Tiberius

  • Members
  • Posts: 235
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 06:47:55 PM »
I just have a question.  While it may be a ton of work to get right, is it not possible to calculate how many planes an airport can handle (like you said 300 for LHR as an example) based on the maps of the airport.  They should show all the remote parking spots, and obviously the number of gates.  There is also an element of guesstimate involved, since parking airplanes can be done in different ways to fit more in.  Here in Denver, for example, I've seen aircraft stacked on gates occasionally (small commuters on a widebody gate), and on the remote spots, some parked backwards and others pulled in forwards.  Just some ideas regarding those tarmac rules you are considering, which I think would be a great idea.  I remember back in another game me and another airline were based in Vegas, and I always wondered where those 400 planes would park.

I haven't opened a base up yet, but I do think I miss the 4 leg routes.  However, I don't think you should reintroduce them until there is some method for calculating connecting passengers.  4 legs could destroy someone's legitimate hub, and unless that hub get a LF bonus for connecting, it would hurt the concept of base airports.

Offline CVACEO

  • Members
  • Posts: 601
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 08:30:49 PM »
Withe regard to A-B-C-B-A or A-B-C-A routes - how are they handled in the real world?  I would think that an airline that is not hubbed at an airport pays considerably more fees than one that is.  Maybe you could implement a significant increase in slot, office, passenger and landing fees for those airlines that are just operating connections through an airport but are not otherwise based or hubbed there?  I would think this would tend to discourage "outside" airlines from "sniping" routes unless those routes were truly worth the cost (in which case, the airline based or hubbed there should rightly have taken steps to acquire that route before an "outisder" even contemplated it).  

I think there is a case to be made for both the new hub system and the ability to fly connections through a non-hub airport.

Dookz

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 11:13:11 PM »
My first feedback and observation.  Airline's HQ out of Tokyo Narita with a base at Naha.  I think rebasing a/c should take some time/or have a limits on how many can be transferred in a given period. Otherwise why offer up to 5 instant transportation other than being it free during base creation, the fee is tiny to a large airline. I can see this leading up to abuse, if one is to target an airline by flying massive amounts of fleet to a new base instantly, perhaps to target a much smaller airline and the player is not around at that hour to respond.

edit: Since bases are huge components of the game and play a critical role in shaping the growth of an airline, may I also add that setting up a base be a gradual process (not slow and not instant either) and transparent one too, meaning any airline in the world is able to view all airlines that are in the process of setting up a base via the airport information page or  a global list . Once the base is complete, then you may start opening routes. In a large country like the US or EU where most of the airlines are based, it gives a small advantage of anticipation to all airlines that have their HQ there because one would know who might be interested in setting up a base. In a small country, it is easy to see that.

That's all for now.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 12:17:58 AM by mini airbus »

Offline malus

  • Members
  • Posts: 74
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 11:19:04 AM »
edit: Since bases are huge components of the game and play a critical role in shaping the growth of an airline, may I also add that setting up a base be a gradual process (not slow and not instant either) and transparent one too, meaning any airline in the world is able to view all airlines that are in the process of setting up a base via the airport information page or  a global list . Once the base is complete, then you may start opening routes. In a large country like the US or EU where most of the airlines are based, it gives a small advantage of anticipation to all airlines that have their HQ there because one would know who might be interested in setting up a base. In a small country, it is easy to see that.

i think at the very least, new bases opening up should be in a news feed, much like new aircraft orders currently are

jest

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 12:15:47 PM »
This is the first world with base airports feature available.. So would be nice to hear comments of it while the game progresses. It is of course very early to say anything about running them in long term or large scale ... but let's open a thread now and you can keep posting..

What I am interested is the ease of growth - does it generate too big airlines too easily? How are all the costs (setup and running costs) factored once you get larger. How's the usability? How 'bad' it would be if 4-leg domestic routes are allowed again (I would suspect a bit of a nightmare in US at least..)



A couple of things that are not yet done but will follow later are:
  a) 'hard' limits on airport size vs. based aircraft. Each airport will have a max number of planes that all airlines combined can base there. For example LHR could have a limit of max 300 planes and no more could be based there since the aprons etc. would be too small. (The exact number will be based on some math formula, real numbers for this is impossible to find)

  b) the date when multiple bases are allowed in EU was when the openskies come into force there, I guess it was 2002 or so. These will be added later, meaning you cannot base into other EU country before that.

  c) adding the other open aviation markets worldwide. There are some others that have started olr are planned.

and also:

   d)  Slot quota for each airline. Each firm can only get certain number of slots for each airport for each month/year in order to avoid excessive growth and slot hogging (ie. Fokker27 times 200 to some high demand destination).



One thing i would like to request is that features are not added in the middle of a game world. So far since the beginning of AWS this rule was always respected.

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14536
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 12:22:44 PM »
One thing i would like to request is that features are not added in the middle of a game world. So far since the beginning of AWS this rule was always respected.

No, new features have been added ALL THE TIME and in every game world and every version .. You've probably just missed them. ;)

The major features however are usually not technically possible to be added mid-game.

Offline Tim

  • Members
  • Posts: 884
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 01:12:52 PM »
a) Really, we don't need this thing. We already have slots system. Enabling this feature, you'll just do the game more complicated and push big airways to open new bases and order larger a/c.
b) More realistic second base opening system would be nice (but only if not doing the game rules more complicated)
c) same
d) Why do we need this? Slots will be available in a lot number of airports for a very long time (exclude LHR, may be).

I think, trying to slow the game (pushing only skilled players), you could loose them. Because game become not so interesting for them (as for me now, I like to plan my routes, receive new a/c. And now all that I need to do is open the game for 10 minutes per day and schedule 1-2 a/c which I'm receiveng very rare!

IMHO, if you have skill, you could try to survive in LHR, for example, if you don't - please, choose other airports and train your skill there (after some time of training, you can open a second base and continue expanding).

juanchopancho

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 02:36:27 PM »
i think at the very least, new bases opening up should be in a news feed, much like new aircraft orders currently are

+1

NicholasB

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 02:40:33 PM »
The new system is great, with regard to hubs, how about some kind of  bidding system/auction, where the base goes to the highest bidder after 1 game week etc ( if there are competing bids). If this was the case, the cost for openng a hub would be much higher, and airlines would think twice about paying the hefty fees for a larger high profile airport, or they consider it so important, that they would be prepared to pay up to 100s of millions for a sought after base. Otherwise they can opt or a smaller base that requires less money and a differenet stratergy. With an Auction system, we could achieve real market value based on what people will or wouldnt pay in the game.

Just a thought, but i think this coud be an exciting feature.

NicholaB

Offline type45

  • Members
  • Posts: 843
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2010, 07:10:03 PM »
The new base system is a great job :) this make the game become different from the old one and having much more challenge now, although I really don't like the top 20 limit on base airport (and the new production slot system too ;) )

I think plane number limits on airport size and slot quota will be a better way to slow down the expansion of big airlines. Production slot limit will also affect small airlines you want to protect. In old days smaller airlines or late comers can use some kind of alternative planes to grow first and fight with big airlines. I'll treat this as some kinds of "back door" for them, but in the new update this door is closed. Their situation should be be worse than older versions. Plane number limits can make the game more realistic but at the same time may cause problem as players will try to fill up the airport as soon as possible, just like the time slot now ;) For slot quota, I think this limit should only be in force on lager airports like the idea talked above, or when there are more than a number of airlines based there. I think 2 or 3 airlines can make the system start to work.

Offline ukatlantic

  • Members
  • Posts: 1780
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2010, 07:21:32 PM »
On the other hand, I found it impossible after operating a mostly regional airline to come up with the money to open a new base airport.  It looks like an easy move for the big boys, but us little operators are on the outside looking in.

I agree, some airlines can afford the $10 Million to set up at another location, maybe the cost should be based on the type of airline you are running and where you Original operating base is so if you started at one of the top 20 world airports then your costs should be significantly higher to open that second base that say the regional airline based at Gatwick.  I dont know how difficult it would be to programme the game for this, maybe it could be calcuated by your weekly operating profit at your base airport and the size of the fleet you have when you are going to open the second base? 

AS for the V1.2 update, I like the new way you have to operate and the way basing works, I also think that the slower game time is a good feature and it allows me more time to do what I have to do with new aircraft, so far a brilliant job done by SAMI!

Benz

  • Former member
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2010, 03:01:24 AM »
I think that the cost to open the base should be based on the size of the airport and its traffic at a particular airport.  For instance, it should not cost the same to open at S***hole, nowhere as it does at JFK.  This would be more relevant to the size of operation and the real world.  Also, this hub and spoke system is too restrictive.  I operate in Canada, where hub and spoke doesn't work and anyone with business sense wouldn't operate that way.  The idea of a additional bases is OK, but multiple legs are preferred.  There should be a combination of both.

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2010, 08:35:15 AM »


I think plane number limits on airport size and slot quota will be a better way to slow down the expansion of big airlines. Production slot limit will also affect small airlines you want to protect. In old days smaller airlines or late comers can use some kind of alternative planes to grow first and fight with big airlines. I'll treat this as some kinds of "back door" for them, but in the new update this door is closed. Their situation should be be worse than older versions. Plane number limits can make the game more realistic but at the same time may cause problem as players will try to fill up the airport as soon as possible, just like the time slot now ;)

I agree with this. The bases sound good and I would create one but I'm a relatively small airline and I have zero access to new aircraft. The used aircraft market has got nothing but ancient 20y.o jets and 20 seat or under props, nothing good there for an airline and I cant order new aircraft without waiting 3-4 years game time for them. I'm actually considering leaving the game as I've simply got no way of going further with the current system.

Offline CVACEO

  • Members
  • Posts: 601
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2010, 01:52:34 PM »
raptorva,

while I agree that pickings are slim in the used a/c market, you can find decent ones when the system releases them every couple of days.  You just have to be quick (or lucky) to get them.

As for the new a/c market, there are opportunites there as well.  In MT2 we are just over two years into the scenario and already some larger (70+ a/c) airlines are beginning to fail.  Watch for these and you can quickly get access to newly opened manufacturing slots.  I did this just a couple days ago and was able to order two brand new 737-300's that will be delivered in under 12 months, while the backlog is 1200+ a/c.  Opportunities are there (or will be), you just have to look for them and be patient.

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: Base airport feature feedback
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 10:50:50 PM »
yeah, I understand that and I like how this is more realistic. Only problem is, the big airlines get bigger at the expense of the smaller ones. I think the new aircraft order options need to be changed so an airline can only order a max of 20-30 new aircraft of a single type and should not be allowed to order more until the previous order has been delivered and completed. This would allow the smaller airlines some space to get production slots as right now, an airline can order 50 new aircraft when they want and then order another 50 immeadiatly after and so forth until the production queue is jam-packed.

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.