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Author Topic: load factor dropped dramatically  (Read 8925 times)

Offline highways1

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #40 on: May 01, 2010, 09:01:53 PM »
Now my loadfactors have fallen well below my averages in ATB. My Y LF has gone from 65 to 52 and my C LF has gone from 50 to 22.

Offline Southsky

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #41 on: May 01, 2010, 09:08:30 PM »
Whatever just happened just righted the LF. Thank you sami.  :)

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #42 on: May 01, 2010, 09:11:51 PM »
Now my loadfactors have fallen well below my averages in ATB. My Y LF has gone from 65 to 52 and my C LF has gone from 50 to 22.

ATB

Business class (C), last 7 days      41.2%       -6.4% Down
First class (F), last 7 days    41.1%    -12.7%

The drop began at 07 April from 60% to 25% at business class and 55% to 25% in First Class.... Y dropped from 75% to 55% and the lower values are at 08 April and 09 April, too.

Offline Sami

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2010, 09:12:52 PM »
Now my loadfactors have fallen well below my averages in ATB.

You should have now the "proper / correct" figures there.. Since the issues with price / CI sensitivity are now fixed (hopefully..) and ATB airlines being new, a small price adjustment may be necessary (I posted that to the game area news too, under Events).

The change in C/F class is greater since pax do really prefer an airline with good image.


(some small tuning may still happen shortly.)

mfpoulsen

  • Former member
Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2010, 09:14:31 PM »
As mentioned in an earlier post, I declared bankruptcy due to the consequences of this... So I opened again - this time in London Gatwick (was in Paris CDG before). I "captured" an empty route to Houston, and set the price to N-15%.

I have since then had minus in my income statement every single game week since. Right now, I have set the price to $299 ($441 is recommended), and still I barely get an average of 60% LF. It is ridiculous.

I have no other choice than bankrupting myself again! I will start up again, but this time as a regional airline despite the much harder competition. Just seems like the B707's along with long haul has become an absolute no-go since the change.

The worst part is I was doing fine before this having loads of fun. I had a strategy of capturing the traffic from CDG to most of North America using B707's. That part succeded to such a great extent that I ordered 17 brand new Airbus A310 to try to capture the traffic to Asia... But before delivery, this change was made, and I ended up bankrupt when only 2 of my Airbus' were delivered. It just sooo feels like we are all part of a beta game here - except we are paying full price to be demo testers!

This sucks!

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2010, 09:19:28 PM »
The change in C/F class is greater since pax do really prefer an airline with good image.

I can understand this and as a passenger in the real world I will choose an airline with a good image, too.

But in AWS pax prefer not to fly from A to B instead with a new(er) airline? Because exactly this happened to me in MT2 and, what it looks like, happens now in ATB too.

Maybe it would be a good idea to restrict plane configuration (maybe only 30% can first class and 50% can business class or something like that) and not choosing pax use ocean liners instead of an airline.


Edit: Set prices another -5% in ATB. If these changes were communicated before the game started, I had used a strategy without long-haul planes (which can be only get money if there is a good first/business demand).... and I think this is what most people annoy. The strategy they had worked fine and then, without doing anything stupid, all goes to hell.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 09:22:01 PM by Curse »

Offline Sami

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2010, 09:26:06 PM »
But in AWS pax prefer not to fly from A to B instead with a new(er) airline?

Didn't quite understand what you meant there. But naturally the one thing that is missing here still is the "necessity" of flying, ie. if prices or service is poor, then do they fly or not. That IS actually modeled to some degree but it's not that smart what in reality, and of course it is quite difficult to model too.


Offline mtnlion

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2010, 09:31:40 PM »
...I had used a strategy without long-haul planes (which can be only get money if there is a good first/business demand).... and I think this is what most people annoy. The strategy they had worked fine and then, without doing anything stupid, all goes to hell.

It's not true that long-haul planes can't make a profit without good C/F demand! In the previous game worlds I've even had very profitable A340s flying in standard all economy seating for flights longer than 5000nm.
Besides I don't get the point of those AWS airlines that use all C/F class seating... IRL that's very difficult business model to operate profitably.  Most of the so called business airlines have bankrupted...

mfpoulsen

  • Former member
Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2010, 09:33:08 PM »
BTW, why on Earth do you think PAX prefers better CI?

IMHO, in hte real world, the price and times of flights are the major decision factors (and thereby LF). Also, if an airline has been fined for flying without doing the checks, that should greatly reduce LF.

By making CI so important for PAX choices, it will be really difficult for new airlines to start up, because if some established company throws an AC into one of my routes, I will be doomed for that route... That p***** me off even more, because this LF change was the reason I am now small with low CI and having to challenge all the big mastodonts again.

Offline CUR$E - God of AirwaySim

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2010, 09:34:39 PM »
I'm sorry for writing inexplicit.

What I meant e.g.:

Air Travel Boom: Los Angeles International to London Heathrow (and reverse). There is a demand of ~4000 pax a day.

My airline offers four flights a week with 302 pax each.

The plane is a not too old DC-10-30 in good condition and the prices were -15% (now -20%) from standard prices.


Due to the game is new, my CI is ~20 and RI is ~45 (and I spent a good part of my profit in marketing).

Maybe 2000 of these 4000 Pax think "Oh no, new airline, I won't visit my family in Los Angeles" or anything like this. But out of 4000 there must be 302 people who think "I don't like this airline, I have DC-10 and I won't pay one Dollar to fly there, but I must fly there because my boss told me/I have to visit my dad for spend him a kidney/whatever".

I can understand your tweaks and the results if there is competition. If there are 10 airlines and 8 are good and two are bad, it's normally pax choose the better airlines. But without competition, they have no choice, also if they hate everything about this one and only airline.

It's not true that long-haul planes can't make a profit without good C/F demand! In the previous game worlds I've even had very profitable A340s flying in standard all economy seating for flights longer than 5000nm.

You're right, but at this stage of the game most aircraft are not the newest and efficient ones.

Offline Sami

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2010, 09:35:34 PM »
BTW, why on Earth do you think PAX prefers better CI?

Company image represents:

a) How KNOWN the airline is. If nobody knows of it, they can't fly with it of course.

b) How REPUTABLE the airline is. If airline is new / unknown, you must compensate with other factors to get people on board (= price).

It's not the only factor affecting, but a new airline cannot simply expect full planes from day 1.


Besides I don't get the point of those AWS airlines that use all C/F class seating...

Yes, this was sort of "blocked" lately too. Not sure yet if it works.  (as I do consider flying a full C/F config longhauler in early game to be a bit of "gaming the game" and it shouldn't be possible, for a completely new airline at least)

Offline Sami

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2010, 09:52:40 PM »
Maybe 2000 of these 4000 Pax think "Oh no, new airline, I won't visit my family in Los Angeles" or anything like this. But out of 4000 there must be 302 people who think "I don't like this airline, I have DC-10 and I won't pay one Dollar to fly there, but I must fly there because my boss told me/I have to visit my dad for spend him a kidney/whatever".

Yep, got the point on that now. But the governing problem is that there is nobody in the world when it starts ... So it wouldn't be good to have the ability to pull 2000 pax on that route instantly. So the slow CI/RI raise sort of simulates the existance of other airlines and new entry to the market.

But this has been discussed quite much and I am hoping to make something on that .. for it to be a bit more realistic in that sense.

Offline highways1

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2010, 10:03:36 PM »
I cut my prices 4 % and now I've spiked again to 84% Y LF. Seems like it is tough to strike the correct balance between start-up airlines and unsatisfied demand.

Offline Sigma

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2010, 10:13:40 PM »
Remember guys, those demand charts aren't telling you how many people are lined up at the airport waiting to fly today.  They're estimates on how many people you could get to  fly if their varying criteria are met -- including whether or not they even know that you (or anyone else) even offers airline service where they want to go.  Many of them may not even be planning to go at all but per your Marketing department, they could be potential demand at some point in the future.  In real life it would take an airline years to grow it's load factors to a point where they'll level out over time. 

The internet certainly makes that happen a lot quicker, and based on previous user surveys it's clear most of you aren't likely to remember a time before you could simply put your desired route into a search engine and get every possible flight/carrier with their respective price in an instant.  But that's a very recent development in the grand scheme of things.  Imagine in 1990 if you desired to go someplace, if you didn't know an airline was offering service into your airport, you weren't very likely to book a ticket with them.  Or imagine even today if your computer illiterate grandparents were going to fly someplace -- they'd probably fly whoever they flew last or whoever their friends did.  It would take a very, very long time before word got out to the majority of the populace that a new airline was offering service to a given destination.

Offline type45

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2010, 10:29:18 PM »
Maybe it would be a good idea to restrict plane configuration (maybe only 30% can first class and 50% can business class or something like that) and not choosing pax use ocean liners instead of an airline.

Just want to show you something I saw on JAL's website, their config of 77W ;)



Offline Sami

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2010, 10:44:24 PM »
Posting again if someone missed it:

For airlines having had troubles over this (meaning - long term problems, exclude the 3-day dip yesterday) please PM me with details of your airline: Airline ID number (eg. 1234), is it still running, present CI and RI on affected routes, list of routes affected (generally), and symptoms seen. I will then decide case-by-case on what is the appropriate action (as in all cases airline "death" may not be caused by this, but in some cases may have just "pushed over the edge").

mnkhaki

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Load Factor Drop
« Reply #56 on: May 02, 2010, 05:14:25 AM »
Hello - my load factor has the same issue as those posted before - it seems to have risen into then 90's then tumbled back to the 70's. I don't see a reason for it - any idea??

Offline Sami

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2010, 05:24:03 AM »
Checked your airline's overall sales and didn't find anything abnormal there.

Offline connorc17

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #58 on: May 02, 2010, 06:21:45 AM »
Just want to show you something I saw on JAL's website, their config of 77W ;)


And you wonder why JAL went bankrupt....... Those suites are a complete waste of space.

Offline type45

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Re: load factor dropped dramatically
« Reply #59 on: May 02, 2010, 07:33:23 AM »
And you wonder why JAL went bankrupt....... Those suites are a complete waste of space.
In good time JAL can get all these seat full, which everybody on board buy for their own seat and no upgrade......but when the economy fall, that's the problem ;)

 

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