AirwaySim
Online Airline Management Simulation
Login
Username
Password
 
or login using:
 
My Account
Username:
E-mail:
Edit account
» Achievements
» Logout
Game Credits
Credit balance: 0 Cr
Buy credits
» Credit history
» Credits FAQ

Author Topic: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?  (Read 2286 times)

Offline type45

  • Members
  • Posts: 843
Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« on: April 28, 2010, 01:32:22 PM »
Is it possible to set up a commuter airline under AWS system? I know sami had made a number of changing to make this possible.

Are there any successful case, especially in full world?

Offline mtnlion

  • Members
  • Posts: 479
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2010, 02:24:43 PM »
Yeah it is, just order a bunch of commuter planes like ATRs and there you have a commuter airline. Any questions?  ;)

More seriously. There's nothing preventing you from establishing a route network and fleet similar to real world commuter airlines, but you just have to be aware that your airline is not going to be as profitable as the bigger ones (just as in real life).

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2010, 02:29:45 PM »
you can try to but most commuter airlines fail. 

CRJs are too expensive when fuel costs rise...
While DASH 8s are great, you need to have almost 10 of them before their good profits really cover your fixed airline costs. 

Commuter planes are a great supplement to an airline but not a good backbone to one.   Sami has been trying to make this easier when he brought out Pilot pay being subdivided into 4 groups. 

What I plan on doing is trying out a commuter thing when I make my hub.

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2010, 03:23:53 PM »
My experience with commuter is: Location, location, location.

If you have an airport with a huge number of airports within 700nm, then you can be very successful. I did this out of Frankfurt in one game, entering at 25% scenario and it worked incredibly well, as long as you have the discipline for fleet comm. and the necessary scheduling ability to keep the planes in the air smartly.

Denis

Offline type45

  • Members
  • Posts: 843
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2010, 04:09:56 PM »
Thank you for your ideas and informations :)

I'm alway considering a back up plan if I really failed in competition. Luckily I think I don't need this plan now, maybe I'll try this in next game world or in hub

Offline Daveos

  • Members
  • Posts: 2983
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 04:26:27 PM »
The tweaks in v1.11 seemed to have allowed them to be profitable now, but pointed out in other posts, you need to have good demand close by and be prepared to be happy with much smaller profits.  Luck is also very important :)

Here is my commuter airline from DOTM:


Offline [ATA] - lilius

  • Members
  • Posts: 1650
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2010, 04:48:30 PM »
It has always been possible to run a commuter airline. The problem here is that players want to grow very fast and the small airplanes will make your airline grow at a lower rate.

On the bright side the risk you take is usually smaller because you handle smaller and cheaper units the whole time and it allows you to grow steadily.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 05:58:58 PM by lilius »

L1011fan

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2010, 07:03:03 PM »
Another problem that I have run into using commuter planes is you can't discount. If you do, the airline goes down the tubes within a day. I don't know why, probably because they carry so few people? I've tried experimenting when I've been heavy on credits and I had to bring in some DC-9's to save an airline for awhile. The others I tried with only ATRS or RJ's, and it seems you can't win with full price and you're dead meat if you discount. Tried a middle tier and that didn't work. I'm only saying this has been my experience. Maybe someone out there can teach us what sort of balancing act might work with out having to have 10 planes off the bat? I'm terrified to use an RJ now. I'll just reach for an F-28. No problems ever with those if you only need 65 seats or however you want to configure it. Anyway, any more ideas, players, for making a strictly commuter airline work while starting out like the rest of us do? (Oh yes, I do have to agree, location is probably your first consideration or at least second). And they do take too long to make money as the other player mentioned. Maybe you could have the first successful one? :)

Offline Sami

  • Administrator
  • Members
  • Posts: 14535
    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2010, 07:30:32 PM »
I will tune the staff costs for class 1/2 planes soon I think.. Just a small update to make their life easier and that has been talked for a while.

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2010, 12:40:34 AM »
in MT2 I just replaced my 737-200's with new BAe-146 series 200 aircraft and they are doing perfectly fine in my region. Location is indeed the key

yxramper

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2010, 01:02:50 AM »
I am trying to include some commuters in my MCI operation, mostly because I got too impatient to wait for another decent used plane to show up. The slot fees and the staffing costs go up the same as for a big plane, and my little Metro II's aren't going to make that up soon. Suggest you stay away from aircraft with less then 40 seats. :)

mideg

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2010, 08:09:38 AM »
Yeah, I am trying to set up an airline from Cologne which only operates small short range a/c. I only use Embraer EMB-110P2A Bandeirante, which I ordered new.

Unfortunately, I do not seem to make any profit at all. I guess this game is not ready for small a/c, which makes me wonder a little why they are in the db at all. The same goes for small airports which do have pax-demand less than 40, so no a/c can serve them and make profit...

Well, I'll probably have to restart, but I want to wait until I got all 10 ordered a/c and see what my profits will look like then. :-)

Offline TK1244

  • Members
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2010, 01:33:44 PM »
Commuter Airlines are always possible, but you have to be patient. Like already said before, you need a fleet of around 10 a/c before you are really making profit. If starting with used aircraft, don't stick too much with them if they are old. I always order brand new aircraft from the beginning. Marketing is also important, but don't make it too expensive when you start, you income won't compensate the costs of the marketing ads.
I always stick with F27 Friendship until the ATR becomes available. The ATR has a range good enough to fly to all Korean airports and build a strong domestic airline.
TK Regional

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2010, 02:07:52 PM »


Unfortunately, I do not seem to make any profit at all. I guess this game is not ready for small a/c, which makes me wonder a little why they are in the db at all. The same goes for small airports which do have pax-demand less than 40, so no a/c can serve them and make profit...


as said many times, these planes are excellent supplements to your airline and NOT good to base your airport on. 

MattDell

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2010, 07:39:53 PM »
as said many times, these planes are excellent supplements to your airline and NOT good to base your airport on. 

There's a few airports in the game where this is not the case... ;)

mideg

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2010, 10:38:01 PM »
as said many times, these planes are excellent supplements to your airline and NOT good to base your airport on. 

As true as this might be, I still think its kind of weird. There are real-world real small airlines which just serve as air-taxis or something on real short routes.

I would like to be able to operate as a real local, small a/c carrier just connecting every tiny airport reachable within 2 or 3 hours to my hub.

Offline CVACEO

  • Members
  • Posts: 601
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2010, 10:57:01 PM »
I think the reason some airlines have trouble with small a/c is because they try to fly to multiple destinations only once per day.  I think you need to fly a minimum of two times per day to each destination in order for the economics of staffing those terminals makes sense.  I think some people see a route with 20 pax demand so they fly a 20-seat a/c there once per day and wonder why they can't make money on that route.  Or, worse yet, they reach out 500+ miles for one of these tiny demand routes.  I think you can be a successful small a/c operator but you have to turn over the seats many times per day to make decent profit.  In reality, this means routes no more than an hour or so long that have enough demand that you can fly them at least twice per day.  A fast, small a/c with a quick turn-around (but not too quick - say 35 min for a 20-min minimum a/c) such as the Embraer 120 can fly such a route and turn over the seats 10-12 times per day.  In this case you can make quite alot of profit, even with a 30pax or less a/c.  In fact, I am doing this exact thing with 3 E-120's out of KPDX in MT2 and making $2000k+ per day right now on each flight with only 65-70% LF (5 flights/day/aircraft = $10,000 per day profit per aircraft - not too bad for what it costs to operate).
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 10:59:51 PM by GoGreenCEO »

Offline raptorva

  • Members
  • Posts: 412
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2010, 11:33:16 PM »
I think the reason some airlines have trouble with small a/c is because they try to fly to multiple destinations only once per day.  I think you need to fly a minimum of two times per day to each destination in order for the economics of staffing those terminals makes sense.  I think some people see a route with 20 pax demand so they fly a 20-seat a/c there once per day and wonder why they can't make money on that route.  Or, worse yet, they reach out 500+ miles for one of these tiny demand routes.  I think you can be a successful small a/c operator but you have to turn over the seats many times per day to make decent profit.  In reality, this means routes no more than an hour or so long that have enough demand that you can fly them at least twice per day.  A fast, small a/c with a quick turn-around (but not too quick - say 35 min for a 20-min minimum a/c) such as the Embraer 120 can fly such a route and turn over the seats 10-12 times per day.  In this case you can make quite alot of profit, even with a 30pax or less a/c.  In fact, I am doing this exact thing with 3 E-120's out of KPDX in MT2 and making $2000k+ per day right now on each flight with only 65-70% LF (5 flights/day/aircraft = $10,000 per day profit per aircraft - not too bad for what it costs to operate).

The EMB-120 and Saab 340 are perfect aircraft for routes which should be covered at minimum twice a day as you said.

Offline ekaneti

  • Members
  • Posts: 844
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2010, 11:55:17 PM »
ATR-72s are very profitable

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Possibility of set up a commuter airline?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2010, 12:54:38 AM »
Most of the important things have been said on the issue. I would also add that it is sort of a scheduling art! It is crucial to have those planes take off sufficiently per day. By flying two frequencies on low pax routes, you get your RI up faster and hence your load factors. But if you are without competition, I do not consider it necessary, also uses slots, you might need elsewhere. In EuroChallenge, which I left today, my airline was based on almost only Saab2000s and I managed to fly down competition on 400pax routes, due to frequency and small a/c. So it is not simply about small pax planes and short routes. The business model simply means that commuter is short-haul. Routes, where people go to work in the morning and come back in the evening. That is the history of commuter. Must be affordable, must not have too much comfort, etc... But the core element is that you have sufficient airports in your range of around 400nm.

About the profits: Don't forget that the aircraft page only displays Earnings After Direct Costs (EADC). Your company's general costs are not included yet.

Denis

 

WARNING! This website is not compatible with the old version of Internet Explorer you are using.

If you are using the latest version please turn OFF the compatibility mode.