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Online Airline Management Simulation
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Author Topic: Difficult to start - my mistake  (Read 3201 times)

Hachiko

  • Former member
Difficult to start - my mistake
« on: April 28, 2010, 06:14:10 AM »
This game is dependable for the fact if you have joined and created your airliner right from the beginning, then you will manage it well. My one mistake was to leave from Paris CDG, because for the alliance I wanted to join later, and that airport already had a forthcoming member there. Now Ive faced nothing but difficulties to being alive in this game. Hub airports slots are almost taken or only half and fewer of them are available. Okay, dont go there. But.. if trying to fly e.g from Osaka to Heathrow is impossible. Secondly, I might start an airliner from Mariehamn, Finland, but that will be boring. I found that many airports already do have 1-2 airliners there.
Game is also slow, but perhaps in right phase when handling large company. So I bankrupted myself many times and paid 3x5 credits, that is I made bankruptcy over 6 times. Have a nice game girls and boys with TMT2, I will try the new one starting soon. My mistake: alliance wannabe...

vitogor

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2010, 09:13:11 AM »
I find it incredibly frustrating as well. Just joined it about 1 week ago (game time) - the worst game week I've ever had in AWS. Opened a Porto-Amsterdam route - no competition, 10:05 departure, everything should be fine and dandy, right? Wrong, 4 out of 5 flights so far had 0 (that's right, zero) pax. I have marketing, I dropped prices 20% - still 0 pax. I'm not new to AWS, this is my 5th (I think) game, so I'm not totally clueless. I knew that you have low LF in the beginning, but this is insane. It's not like I'm flying to the middle of nowhere where there's no demand. And once people start opening bases 3 months from now, it'll be over for small struggling airlines.

mikk_13

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2010, 09:18:21 AM »
i've had the same problem. It is very difficult to start.

castelino009

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2010, 09:20:30 AM »
No matter where you start its difficult I have played all games incl all Beta's  and MT 2 is the first game i have struggled 3 times to start succesfully. same style, same way, everything the same way  but had no luck.

After 3 times, i got fed up and quit the game, to make it worse the game is slow, long boring and dragging.

Hope the future games live up to the older games, quicker, faster and more fun :)


Offline Wing Commander Chad Studdington

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2010, 10:36:38 AM »
Unimpressed with MW2. Too long, the new LF model makes no sense at times, a lack of decent used a/c is basically stopping growth. I've tried to restart and now all the Airbuses, 727s, 737s, DC-9s and MD's have gone it just impossibly hard to start up.

Offline Sami

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    • AirwaySim - Are you the next Richard Branson?
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 11:08:12 AM »
So I bankrupted myself many times and paid 3x5 credits, that is I made bankruptcy over 6 times.

Sorry but HOW many times did you b/c..? Since you can restart 3 times for every "join" you make.

mikk_13

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2010, 11:12:54 AM »
well i've bk 4-5 times now. so its cost me 10 so far. I don't know what i was doing wrong. I had 5 dash 7's and one yak42. after about 3 real days i made maximum 30000 profit. I didn't have huge marketing, i flew the dam things all day, i didn't have any competition. I didn't alter or change anything since it creates nav expenses. It worked out that staff cocts were about 15% of weekly turnover, and ground handeling fees were my 2nd highest expense.

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 11:16:59 AM by mikk_13 »

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2010, 01:26:25 PM »
Sorry to hear that there have been a number of these experiences obviously.

Still, I would like to point out that we also have a huge number of just newly found airlines that have been doing incredibly well and have managed to grow in a very healthy way (e.g. India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia markets). Also, we have seen a number of those airlines that have grown very fast during the first game year, leaving us due to bankruptcy as the C-check season came on, and their high growth hence leading to a very bad fleet commonality. Further, the choice of the launch airport is of course crucial, and as has been pointed out very often in the forum, and by many experienced players, it seemed quite odd to think about starting at an airport where it would be abvious that everybody would try to fly there right from the beginning. Also, the huge number of players in this game in itself brings the competition to a new level.

So, to disturb the monotony a little bit: I really love this scenario with this fierce competition, tight a/c markets, and quickly gone slots. I believe it makes strateg and discipline become much more crucial and the new base airports will make this even more challenging. This is what I like about this game, and I must say, I have been missing that in many other scenarios, where I personally found it quite "easy" to build a huge airline and maintain a market leadership position.

Denis

Offline Pai

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2010, 01:30:35 PM »
hey guys, no offence but if you read the threads posted by many other players, such as from Swiftus, Talentz, Kontio, etc

They've explained the way of how to play this game well.

If you are still not listen to their advise and play the game in your way, most of the time you'll bk.

=======

To mikk_13:

Hi, I saw you started in Nagoya with BAC fleets, good move my friend. Try to void crowded routes first, lower the ticket price when RI is low, try not to open a new route when the current routes are not fufilled (save on marketing cost I heard).

Be patient and you can do it!

==============

Cheers
Pai
Lunar Airways

Offline CVACEO

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2010, 02:23:13 PM »
Hi all,

I'm pretty new at AWS - this being only my second game world.  But my take on the "too slow, boring, no LF's early on", etc.. is that you are missing one very crucial component that exists in the "real world" (which AWS attempts to simulate) and that is ... patience.

We're only 15 months or so into these brand new startup business, and only 5% into the game world.  Think about what it takes to launch and grow a new business of any kind, let alone an airline with the competition and other "real world" variables that AWS simulates.  Come on, folks, what do you want? ... realism or an arcade game? 

One thing I learned from the previous game world (Jet Age) is that the bigger you are the harder you fall.  If you think you can build an airline through continuous, improperly managed growth than think again.  Some of the biggest (and seemingly most successful) airlines in this game world right now will be long gone within 5-7 years.  Just wait and see how the dynamic of the game changes when that starts to happen.  Slots will open up, routes will open up and the airlines that are in this for the long haul will begin to solidify there futures.

One other thing I just cannot understand ... why in the heck would you want to lease a brand new airplane to cover an existing route that you have an older (and cheaper) plane currently flying?  If you're going to replace an aging fleet then at least buy the new airplanes outright so you can cut your expenses (leases go away & insurance gets much, much cheaper).

I love this game and the challenges its presents.

Just my $.02

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 02:27:16 PM »
hey guys, no offence but if you read the threads posted by many other players, such as from Swiftus, Talentz, Kontio, etc

They've explained the way of how to play this game well.

If you are still not listen to their advise and play the game in your way, most of the time you'll bk.


Cheers
Pai


Ask Brockster (dont be offended) how many times he crashed and burned (pun intended).   Not a knock on him, it just took a long time for him to make a good profitable airline.  

Lots of players fail miserably a few times before they get it.  I killed many a good airline (and Sami's IP blocker took down another one when I went on vacation)... but that's a different story.  

Patience is a virtue.  It really is.  I wish that I could have put that into my own guide but I am sure many newbs haven't read it. 

mikk_13

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 02:37:41 PM »
I'm now determine to make my original airline work.

I think where i came unstuck was I opened too many routes with only 50 seats. therefore my ground handling and staff costs were huge. I'm going to try a new tactic now and see how i go.

Offline CVACEO

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2010, 02:50:45 PM »
You bet.  Too many routes without enough flights to each destination will kill you.  Think about the staff required to man your ticketing counter, gates, baggage, etc... at each destination you fly to.  If that staff is being paid for an 8-hour day and only working for the one flight you have going there each day then look at the inefficiencies there.  In my opinion you need to be able to fly at least twice a day (3-5 times per day is preferable) to each destination without oversupplying the demand.  For instance, if you have a route with a demand of 250 pax and you are only flying 120 seats a day into that destination then you are not tapping the profit potential of that route properly.  Additionally, by leaving demand open on that route you are inviting a competitor to come in and steal it from you.  My suggestion is to find a route that has good demand, fly it with an appropriate aircraft, and fly it as many times per day as the demand warrants.  And, (big matter of importance here) fly your routes at the times people want to fly! Don't expect to have high LF if you are flying between 2300 and 0500 hours.  My experience has proven to me that the "sweet spot" for flight hours per day for your aircraft is somewhere between 12.5 and 13.5 hours.  If you are trying to fly your aircraft 19 or more hours per day (overnight long-haul is an exception) then you are probably paying more in salaries, fuel and maintenance then you could ever hope to make in ticket sales.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 02:54:24 PM by GoGreenCEO »

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2010, 03:02:03 PM »
Also, marketing costs go up with every city you connect to.  Better off maxing out one before you hit another.

Again, you CAN fly between 2300 and 0500.  Just make sure they are not departing or arriving between those times LOCALLY...  You can fly ~1200nm in an easterly direction and take off at 2250 and land at 0510... that is OKAY!

mikk_13

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 03:14:52 PM »
well, i'll stick to all that and see how i go this time. will let you know

Also for anyone else who is have the same problem, i found if you open the routes before you get the plane, you still pay for the extra staff etc as soon as you open the routes even though you don't have the plane. so open as close or after you get the plane is the best idea.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 03:19:45 PM by mikk_13 »

Offline SAC

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 05:24:44 PM »
I too have had to start again three times, and my latest and last attempt isn't going well either !

I have read thread after thread and taken on advice given - to no avail - before anyone says thats what I should do.

Other worlds I have played in I have been just fine - having 400 a/c at times, but this game isn't fun.
I am paying for a game that seems impossible to get started in and am not enjoying one little bit.

If all scenarios are this tricky in the future then this might not be the game for me anymore  :-\


...it's not over until I say it's over

DenisG

  • Former member
Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 05:59:17 PM »
I too have had to start again three times, and my latest and last attempt isn't going well either !

I have read thread after thread and taken on advice given - to no avail - before anyone says thats what I should do.

Other worlds I have played in I have been just fine - having 400 a/c at times, but this game isn't fun.
I am paying for a game that seems impossible to get started in and am not enjoying one little bit.

If all scenarios are this tricky in the future then this might not be the game for me anymore  :-\





Hi SAC!

I hope you don't mind a few remarks about your performance, as I took a look:

1. You fly 2 fleet types with 6 aircrafts. Although age seems ok.
2. You are flying routes, where competition is too strong because your airline is too young (CI) and competitors have way higher frequencies than you (Atlanta route)
3. You are flying high density seating and oversatisfying demand (Birmingham, 65 seats on 50 pax/Lafayette, 52 seats on 40 pax demand with lows at 32)
4. You are sending two Fokker props on a 5 hour (!!) journey to Detroit, 4,5 hours to Newark (in high density). Props aren't made for that, especially not in high density. Thus, not generating sufficient routes in one day for props.
5. Most routes are too long for props.

Denis

Offline SAC

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 06:14:55 PM »
Dennis,

I don't mind at all - I need all the help I can get as not too lose heart and give up !   Here's "excuses"...

1)...I intended to stick to 2 types only to kick off with, I realise the importance of commonality - however due to my bad performance so far I have not been able to get anymore F28's.  Maybe waiting to get the second type may have helped and I should not have obtained the F28 so early.

2)...Atlanta is the only route I have with any major competition !   Just had a quick look and ATL seems to be the only route with any competition.

3)...These flights are making me most money, not that I might be over doing it, but the a/c gets lots of rotations between 0500-2400 so earns well combined.

4)...I chose one to fly the route to see if it performed better than the very short flights other F27's were flying. And the outcome is as you say...not profitable.  It is only one a/c though and I will re-route it now.

5)...If that is the case then that is the issue.  I chose props to start as they are cheap to lease and run - they are the common factor in the false starts so far though !  Most routes though are no where near the max range of the F27 - so I pressumed the a/c fitted the route.

I can't quit again as I am not paying again to join the same game so I'll change what I can and hope for the best.

Thanks for taking the effort to look for me as it is really really annoying me as I did really enjoy previous games.

Cheers
Steve

p.s. anyone borrow me a couple of million to get me back on track?   I'll give you 25% share in American Southern - were gunna be massif if we can hurdle this hiccup ;)   not !

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 06:18:48 PM by SAC »
...it's not over until I say it's over

Offline swiftus27

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2010, 06:43:31 PM »
This is to many of you including SAC.

While a plane shows a profit on the My Aircraft page, they may not be able to generate a net profit for the company.  The My Aircraft page profits do not take into account your fixed company costs at all.

this is why regional airlines get killed in this game.  They fail to look at the costs of their office staff.

Offline SAC

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Re: Difficult to start - my mistake
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2010, 06:47:24 PM »
Fully aware of that Swiftus27 - it tells you on the route information page that profits are excluding certain costs.  It's getting the a/c to generate enough profit to cover "other costs" that's the problem !
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 06:50:52 PM by SAC »
...it's not over until I say it's over

 

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