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Author Topic: Caledonian Intercontinental  (Read 3873 times)

jchaves

  • Former member
Caledonian Intercontinental
« on: March 15, 2010, 07:58:01 AM »
You wrote the following text in a press release:

The CEO today released the following.

Frankfurter, based out of Frankfurt, Germany, has crossed the line.  CAL (Caledonian Intercontinental) has always respectected other airlines routes and soverienty, however, underhandedly and in an unmarked manner, Frankfurter has tried to rob CAL of a long existing route, by overloading it with over 200% supply and clearly not showing fair competition, on this route.

Seoul has been a satelite base for CAL for many years now, and has many European routes, which the Seoul governement requested of CAL in 1966, as they did not have any respectable airlines the fly the European arena.

CEO of CAL has redirected his strategic department to "meet and eat" Frankfurters at every corner, it is rumoured that although 7 TU114's will be delivered in the coming months, that 2 have just been purchased outright and will be online within the week to meet the CEO's orders to the planning department. The strategic department has to re-focus all it plans, as by order of the CEO, they are to move in on Frankfurter, until Frankfurter relents or apologises for his err in judgement.

The CEO further went on to say that CAL is protected being out of LHR, and due to no slots being available, Frankfurter will be unable to affect there main routes. The auxillary routes are just that, due to lack of slots the auxillary routes fill the gap in aircraft schedules, and we have plenty resourses to fight for our auxilary routes.

It is believed CAL has already moved in on one of Frankfurters routes as we speak.

Cal CEO said he would stop the attack should Frankfurter respect CAL's routes.  He further went on to say that neither CAL nor Frankfurter is a small airline, both being majors can only mean that the ensueing battle will have casualties on both sides, but the CEO made clear he did not want this war and is a victim of a brutal onslaught.

Later that evening in a drunken sprawl in an uptown London night club, the CEO of CAL was heard rambling about the damn Germans and how they need to be tought a lesson as in 1945...again.  Quote" I remember bombing Frankfurt in 1944, I did not think I had to do it again in 1969....the life we lead..)


London Bush telegraph


So, as I don't know the english language enough to understand such a literary and novelistic level, I need to ask you what is really your problem in terms of simulation (I'm talking about the AirwaySim simulator v.1.11) and it's rules.

Could you please answer in simple and clear language?

Thanks in advance

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 09:18:14 AM »
I give you a little help on this:

200% is two times, 2X, double, twice, etc. So, talking about the route EDDF - RKSI    (to me. To you is EGLL - EDDF - RKSI - EDDF - EGLL), if you double the route day with less pax demand, that is saturday with 234 demand, the number would be 468. The max pax I'm placing there (on other days) is 357.

In this simulator, there isn't such thing as robbery. If so, flying a direct route from my hub would be in the bottom position in the list of robbery acts. Quite after you flying a second leg and assuming that you're the owner of that route. Also quite after you spending the double (here is correct) of airport slots in other players hub when you fly a second leg, specially when slots are running out. I did it in Tokyo and after a while I canceled those routes, as I decided that's unfair for the players based there. But I'm not sure if there is any rule about it in AWS.

However, I'm sure that there is a rule for another thing, which is combined acts from alliance members aiming another player or another alliance. And you need to take some care about it, because (as you must know quite well) there are more members of your alliance using EDDF for second legs and exactly with the same aircraft type for LH routes.

Still about the simulation rules, you don't need a bad excuse to fly the routes that I'm flying, or to start flying even more, or even to start calling it a war. It's tottaly allowed, except the war part.

For the rest of your press release, I'd only like to say the following:
-making jokes about city bombing (in real life) isn't funny at all.
-I'm not German, I'm Portuguese.

Offline ukatlantic

  • Members
  • Posts: 1780
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 06:43:31 PM »

In this simulator, there isn't such thing as robbery. If so, flying a direct route from my hub would be in the bottom position in the list of robbery acts. Quite after you flying a second leg and assuming that you're the owner of that route. Also quite after you spending the double (here is correct) of airport slots in other players hub when you fly a second leg, specially when slots are running out. I did it in Tokyo and after a while I canceled those routes, as I decided that's unfair for the players based there. But I'm not sure if there is any rule about it in AWS.


Funny this you were very quick to take demand out of AMS to LHR a route that I was waiting to fulfil when AA left it yesterday and also have increased to 5%!!!!.  You are also doing exactly what CAL has done but your using AMS - as the saying goes people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.....

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 09:12:16 PM »
Funny this you were very quick to take demand out of AMS to LHR a route that I was waiting to fulfil when AA left it yesterday and also have increased to 5%!!!!.  You are also doing exactly what CAL has done but your using AMS - as the saying goes people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones.....

Not really, sorry.

I didn't say that I'm not flying second legs.

The difference is that I don't presume that a route is mine. Nothing belongs to me, any route departing from my hub or any route that I'm flying since the beginning. You didn't see me complaining about so many companies using EDDF for second legs, including companies with a lot of slots in their own hubs to set routes and expand. In those cases, the option to create a leg in EDDF, instead of creating a new direct route from their hubs seems to be clearly to "dry" all the slots in EDDF. It's allowed, as far as I know, unless it is a combined tactic from a group of companies, alliance, etc, etc.

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 06:08:07 PM »
CEO CAL speaking

Mr Portugues, JChives, Frankfurter, I trust I find you well, and I do agree with some of your statements.

I agree I do not own the routes, but I definetly do not invade a route that is almost full, by doubling the demand on the route and trying to oust out the existing carrier(hence RKSI-EDDF), as you say this is a simulation, and I assume ladies and mainly "gentlemen" are playing it.  There are so many other routes you could have gained with the same LF but far greater profit, it is very clear you are trying to "knock" me down out of Frankfurt.  I  also had 95% LF's on the LHR-EDDF route, now they are bearly 40%, thanx to your overloading.........competition overinflated I say........well i will live with it, but dont compain when it happens to you.

Secondly, dont assume that I have planned anything with anyone else against you, especially my alliance, I think Sami should look into your claim as it is truely false and inaccurate, bearly co-incidence, obviously you may have done the same to them as you did to me, so maybe they are paying you back!  If you thinking I provided aircraft to them as well, the only aircraft I have sold are HS121 and BAC's!

Thirdly, if you look at LHR's slots you will see 0, that means to expand I have no choice to fly a second leg, which I will state again I choose routes that where clear or totally under supplied.

My jokes where just that, and I did apologise!

I see you are doing extremely well, so good luck.

JM




I'm sorry you took it personally. This has nothing related with you as a person or a player.
Once again, I didn't overload the mentioned route. You can find a post written today in this forum to see what is overloading and the consequences. Here http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,19414.0.html.

The only thing I did and I'm doing is to satisfy the existing demand.

Believe me, I understand quite well the expansion problem. Maybe you didn't notice, but Frankfurt had a total of 7 companies in the beginning, and one of my local competitors was a company extremely hard to compete with. Not only for me, but for the majority of the big companies in european hubs, and all those players can tell you the same. But unfortunately I can't stop flying routes because you can't open new routes in your hub and need to use other hubs. Right?

Anyway, in your place, I would make a few things in a different way to compete with the other companies based in EGLL. Placing a lot of aircrafts on the route Frankfurt/Johannesburg won't hit those companies. But it's ok, as long as you're having fun.

About doing extremely well... I don't know, I'm just trying to do my best, as possible.


Best regards, good luck to you too, mate.

Offline TK1244

  • Members
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 06:13:57 PM »
However, I'm sure that there is a rule for another thing, which is combined acts from alliance members aiming another player or another alliance. And you need to take some care about it, because (as you must know quite well) there are more members of your alliance using EDDF for second legs and exactly with the same aircraft type for LH routes.
I don't know what your talking about, but I think your alliance does the same to us? You was the only airline of your alliance to fly to my base Izmir (on the Frankfurt- Izmir). You have added a second leg to this flight recently to Madrid. A member of you alliance did the same flying Madrid- Izmir- Dubai, using more material than needed! I know what you are trying to do, but if you want to start a war between two alliances, do it in a fair way ;). I like competition and I welcome you and souto (SOUTO AIRWAYS LTD) to my base, but don't talk bull s*** about us if you do the same ;)
I don't know how the conditions are at my partner hubs, but I know for sure that I'm not the only Global Team member which have second leg flights of your partners on our hubs.
TK Regional

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 06:20:00 PM »
I don't know what your talking about, but I think your alliance does the same to us? You was the only airline of your alliance to fly to my base Izmir (on the Frankfurt- Izmir). You have added a second leg to this flight recently to Madrid. A member of you alliance did the same flying Madrid- Izmir- Dubai, using more material than needed! I know what you are trying to do, but if you want to start a war between two alliances, do it in a fair way ;). I like competition and I welcome you and souto (SOUTO AIRWAYS LTD) to my base, but don't talk bull s*** about us if you do the same ;)
I don't know how the conditions are at my partner hubs, but I know for sure that I'm not the only Global Team member which have second leg flights of your partners on our hubs.

 :) you won't believe, but I did never read my alliance forum or talked with other member, since I wrote a hello message when I joined, many time ago.

And I'm just managing my company. How many second legs do you have in your hub? the last time I took a look, EDDF had 45 routes, flown by 7 companies.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 06:24:18 PM by jchaves »

Offline TK1244

  • Members
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 06:25:11 PM »
It doesn't matter if you talked with anyone or not. I don't think you (or souto) are stupid to fly a route that is already flown by you alliance member plus two other airlines.
You are using a B721 on the Izmir- Madrid leg of your flight and he is using B721 and a VC10 on his two flights on the same route. That means 360 seats on a flight with demand of 150 pax. Flying with two different airlines means that non of you two break the rules of overloading a route. ;)
TK Regional

jumbo Mouse

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 06:30:30 PM »


Anyway, in your place, I would make a few things in a different way to compete with the other companies based in EGLL. Placing a lot of aircrafts on the route Frankfurt/Johannesburg won't hit those companies. But it's ok, as long as you're having fun.


Dear JChaves

Thank you for your reply, I have no intention to "hit" the other companies out of LHR, we all respect each other and dont "step" on each other!  My only intention is to affect someone who has invaded a route I was doing well on, not to mention flying alone on for 2 years AWS time. I am not sure what you mean about filling demand, do you mean filling the whole demand and more with your flights, disregarding the other existing carriers on the route.  Example, RKSI had about 240 on Monday demand, I had on 180 there, you came in with almost 400, has does that equal meeting demand, my maths must be worse then i think!!!

Anyway, nothing taken personnaly, I think you where more touchy than me at first...thats why I had to publically apologise.

Well the game is what it is, a game., so thets be sports and take what comes................good luck.  I am not sure what your EDDF-RKSI or FAJS LF's are like, but we can negotiate to pull some flights and allow us both to profit Bigger........your choice.......suggest you pull a daily flight off RKSI and I will pull a daily FAJS-EDDF off. (making the suppply of both our airlines equal the demand).  

I am sure you are a great guy to drink with, so am I, and we have a commen interest in airlines, so goodluck and may the force be with you.

JM

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2010, 06:41:19 PM »


Anyway, nothing taken personnaly, I think you where more touchy than me at first...thats why I had to publically apologise.



Do you remember this personal message sent to me after your Alliance leader published an apologise press release?
............
Sent to: jchaves on: 15 March 2010, 12:50:53
     
Mr Frankfurter

Dear Sir

I am writing on behalf of the CEO Caledonian Intercontinental.  I am sure you have read the latest press release from our CEO directed at your operations.

It may be an err in your judgement to open the RKSI-EDDF route, and soo overgrossly supplying it, or it may be one of you tactics.

As CAL has operated this route for many years, and may  add the route was vacant, it is a slap in the face to the CAL CEO, furthermore CAL is not in the practise of poaching routes from any airlines.  CAL does acknowledge that you are the "Major" out of Frankfurt, but also would like to bring to light, that due to the fact that LHR has no slots, it is a company measure to get 3 days flying out of 1 slot, hence flying back to European (non flown) routes.
CAL has in the past eyed routes to EDDF, but due to your presence has steered clear in order to avoid conflict, the one which you have set upon us now.

CAL will eagerly pursue all your routes until you come to some agreement with us, further CEO would like to advise the Johannesburg route will slowly be eroding before your eye's. This is a first shot across the bow, dont let us shot your hull.

We are aware you are big and wealthy, but so are we!, and we dont mind a fight should you not want to compromise, it will just mean that both of us will spend unnecessary time managing our routes instead of expanding them.

Regards
Secretary to SIR JM
Constantine Archiballs


jumbo Mouse

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2010, 06:52:55 PM »
YES I do..............reads normal to me and a offer made!!! what do you read????

And if you read it in its entirety, I offered a deal and compromise, you did not contact me back, now you reply through a General froum months later.........

Not sure what you getting at, but whatever, I offered to deal............

Goodluck
Jm
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 06:54:59 PM by jumbo Mouse »

jumbo Mouse

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2010, 07:00:31 PM »
EDDF to EGLL

(Average daily demand 1020 PAX, average supply 2500 seats), Frankfurter has 57% market share on the route, is that not 1250 seats per day of your airline alone??? ......... 230 above daily demnd without the other airlines flying there!! or is my maths scr..wed again???...........and with the seats LLL and I send to Frankfurt, you surely are not making a good LF!

This is your tactic and offends many players, but I'm over it ,so play on mate.

JM
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 07:03:45 PM by jumbo Mouse »

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2010, 07:08:14 PM »
EDDF to EGLL

(Average daily demand 1020 PAX, average supply 2500 seats), Frankfurter has 57% market share on the route, is that not 1250 seats per day of your airline alone??? ......... 230 above daily demnd without the other airlines flying there!! or is my maths scr..wed again???...........and with the seats LLL and I send to Frankfurt, you surely are not making a good LF!

This is your tactic and offends many players, but I'm over it ,so play on mate.

JM


I supply an average 1300 seats for 1020 demand. What is exactly the problem or the offense?

jumbo Mouse

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2010, 07:15:22 PM »
AHa

No problem or offense, just sorry for the other guy you walked all over supplying his route.............

No you wonder why you upset so many other people............

Anyway, no use trying to explain, English not my home language either, so if you dont understand from the above what you are doing to other airlines..............

Demand can be shared and met with reasonable supply, not trying to pulverize the other airline into the ground, you have soo much cash that some airlines have to just run away when you arrive, because you leave them nothing........not even 1 passenger....

Nice of you......what comes around goes around

JM over and out (final)

  

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2010, 07:20:46 PM »
AHa

No problem or offense, just sorry for the other guy you walked all over supplying his route.............

No you wonder why you upset so many other people............

Anyway, no use trying to explain, English not my home language either, so if you dont understand from the above what you are doing to other airlines..............

Demand can be shared and met with reasonable supply, not trying to pulverize the other airline into the ground, you have soo much cash that some airlines have to just run away when you arrive, because you leave them nothing........not even 1 passenger....

Nice of you......what comes around goes around

JM over and out (final)

  


1. I didn't know that I'm upsetting people.
2. If I am, still don't get why.
3. I really don't understand what you're trying to demonstrate about the route EDDF-EGLL

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2010, 07:36:03 PM »
It doesn't matter if you talked with anyone or not. I don't think you (or souto) are stupid to fly a route that is already flown by you alliance member plus two other airlines.
You are using a B721 on the Izmir- Madrid leg of your flight and he is using B721 and a VC10 on his two flights on the same route. That means 360 seats on a flight with demand of 150 pax. Flying with two different airlines means that non of you two break the rules of overloading a route. ;)

Frankfurter is not flying Izmir- Madrid anymore.  :)

Offline TK1244

  • Members
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2010, 07:43:16 PM »
Frankfurter is not flying Izmir- Madrid anymore.  :)
thank you for choosing the fair way of competition, like I already said, you are welcome in Izmir, but only if you want to compete in a fair way ;)
TK Regional

jchaves

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2010, 07:51:32 PM »
thank you for choosing the fair way of competition, like I already said, you are welcome in Izmir, but only if you want to compete in a fair way ;)

No problem at all. It also happens that one of the destinations of that leg is the hub of a member of my alliance and I simply didn't see that he started flying the route.

Offline TK1244

  • Members
  • Posts: 1245
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2010, 08:07:36 PM »
No problem at all. It also happens that one of the destinations of that leg is the hub of a member of my alliance and I simply didn't see that he started flying the route.
It doesn't mind, but I still don't get why you have converted your Frankfurt- Izmir flight into a Frankfurt- Izmir- Madrid flight? Is that route so important for you, that you have started it while two airlines (Lloyd Airlines and me) already flew it?
TK Regional

carloscarlos

  • Former member
Re: Caledonian Intercontinental
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2010, 09:15:20 PM »
well...usually i dont get in other players issues and keep the opinion to my self.
but i think this is getting a little out of hand....please allow me to explain...

from what i understood from this thread and the previous ones where the issue was considered, it was Caledonian that started complaining, using "funny" jokes to attack Frankfurter...threatening to take measures if he wouldnt stop flying the a certain route...
let me say, that if you start using another hub as a 2nd, it is obvious that the player based there wont like it and will defend it, if you bear in mind that you are the one trying to take is market share, from his own hub ...dont really understand why you are complaining, sorry.

when you state that Sami should look at the issue that Frankfurter mentions that there may have been a plot arranged against him...well to be honest dont really know waht to say, though it is dead easy to arrange it without Sami noticing it i guess...pm's are easilly deleted...but to be honest, before i left the JA game due to the lack of time, i was considering flying some routes out of FRA too... :-[ and i actually noticed a player, cant remember who and what alliance, flying a route where the demand was about 50/60 with a vc10...well...it would be ok, if it would be to fill a gap in the schedule, but what actually astonished me was that he was flying that route with a stop to refuel from a 6000nm departure...now you tell me what would you make of it!? ide personally thing some1 is trying to block his expansion...by using the golden slots... ;D

you have actually mentioned that a lot of players are annoyed at Frankfurter...from waht i saw from this lengthy exchange of reply's only the player based at Izmir complained not in a really polite way, but from what i understood...the issue between them was solved.

you try to say that he doesnt give other players a chance to expand, a new player creates a route and he defends it...well...wouldnt you do the same!? there is the beginners game for players to learn the basics...nothing that a few bankrupcy's wont teach them the best way to survive...i went through them my self...
besides that, based in AMS, before i left and in the route ams-fra, there wasnt a single flight from frankfurter.

have you actually though that it may have been the way you started, by creating threads not so pleasant that may have generated the issue of him not wanting to share the routes you fly from his hub?!

please understand im not taking anyone's side, but everything has its limit!

why dont you just enjoy the best online airline simulation and leave the management time to keep up the good work!?

kind regards

Carlos Carlos

 

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