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### Author Topic: excessive pilots  (Read 1056 times)

#### jchaves

• Former member
##### excessive pilots
« on: February 21, 2010, 02:43:06 AM »
at this moment I have 12 Very Large Aircrafts.
Why do I need 470 (39 pilots per aircraft) pilots for very large aircrafts?

#### ICEcoldair881

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 06:04:29 AM »
at this moment I have 12 Very Large Aircrafts.
Why do I need 470 (39 pilots per aircraft) pilots for very large aircrafts?

is that the total amount, or just for the large planes?

#### d2031k

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2010, 08:34:54 AM »
If you have 470 pilots just for very large aircraft then something is wrong.  If you have 470 pilots in total then that seems quite reasonable looking through your fleet.

13x B707s (4 pilots) =  52
2x Britannias (3 pilots) = 6
18x DC-7s (3 pilots) = 54
13x Caravelles (2 pilots) = 26

Total = 138 pilots

With shifts, days off, holidays, sickness etc and that pilots are not cross-trained, then 470 seems ok.

Dave

#### jchaves

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2010, 09:06:24 AM »
If you have 470 pilots just for very large aircraft then something is wrong.  If you have 470 pilots in total then that seems quite reasonable looking through your fleet.

13x B707s (4 pilots) =  52
2x Britannias (3 pilots) = 6
18x DC-7s (3 pilots) = 54
13x Caravelles (2 pilots) = 26

Total = 138 pilots

With shifts, days off, holidays, sickness etc and that pilots are not cross-trained, then 470 seems ok.

Dave

Then... something is very wrong, because I have the following:

Pilots (small a/c)      0 / 0   (100%)
Pilots (medium a/c)      0 / 0   (100%)
Pilots (large a/c)      444 / 440   (101%)
Pilots (very large a/c)      475 / 470   (101%)

the reason for 101% is that I used to hire 1 or 2 more than the exact needed number, when the things were more normal than this.

Oh, I forgot to mention cabin crew.
Cabin crew      1 252 / 1 240   (101%), 26 employees per aircraft.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:11:30 AM by jchaves »

#### d2031k

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2010, 09:25:28 AM »
Just looking into a bit more, here are my stats for my fleet in comparison.  Maybe very large aircraft do actually necessitate a much higher number of pilots thinking about overnight stays and being out-of-hours, deadhead etc.

Edit: 36 per aircraft does seem quite high though...Whilst my DC-6s only require 3 pilots, it works out at an average of 13.25 per aircraft

Edit 2:  This article suggests that in 2008 BA employed 3270 for 248 aircraft.  Now obviously pilot numbers are reduced these days, but over the entire fleet that averages at just over 13 per aircraft.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:37:56 AM by Daveos »

#### jchaves

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2010, 09:39:18 AM »
Just looking into a bit more, here are my stats for my fleet in comparison.  Maybe large aircraft do actually necessitate a much higher number of pilots thinking about overnight stays and being out-of-hours, deadhead etc.

Edit: 36 per aircraft does seem quite high...Whilst my DC-6s only require 3 pilots, it works out at an average of 13.25 per aircraft

Edit 2:  This article suggests that in 2008 BA employed 3270 for 248 aircraft.  Now obviously pilot numbers are reduced these days, but over the entire fleet that averages at just over 13 per aircraft.

Interesting numbers about BA. Anyway 13 per aircraft still seems to high.

#### d2031k

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 09:46:21 AM »
I've got a BA publication from 1995 and looking through that they had 2926 pilots and 327 flight engineers to cover 206 aircraft in 1995.

13 seems ok, as on a longer flight with large aircraft you'd need 3 there, 3 back, maybe 2 back-up, 2 or 3 on days off, 1 on holiday, 1 or 2 training?

#### Sigma

• Members
• Posts: 1920
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 09:51:26 AM »
Maybe very large aircraft do actually necessitate a much higher number of pilots thinking about overnight stays and being out-of-hours, deadhead etc.

This.

Sami's explained this a number of times.  You get screwed if you, say, use A300s for purely domestic service.  But that's just the way it works for now.  It assumes certain types of aircraft, based on size, are used in certain types of service that necessitate much higher pilot counts.

Quote
Interesting numbers about BA. Anyway 13 per aircraft still seems to high.

No way.  In fact, I could argue that's actually a litte low.

You'll need at least 9 pilots just to fly an aircraft over a 24-hour span (for planes requiring 3 pilots at a time), and that only covers 5 days per week.  Then you need another set of 9 pilots to fly the other 2 days.  And you're not going to just hire them 2 days per week, so you've got them onboard all the time, and they'll also cover time off, so you end up having 6 full "sets" of crew.  And that's at the very least.

36 is undoubtedly too high, but it was done (as many things are in AWS) as a means of, overall, averaging out when looking at an entire fleet of your average airline as well as average routes.  If you fly just Large aircraft and just short-range you're getting a bit screwed with the formula, yes.  But considering the margins allowed by those aircraft in-game, giving up a bit too much in salary is no big deal.

#### jchaves

• Former member
##### Re: excessive pilots
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 11:02:44 AM »
Thanks everybody!

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