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Author Topic: Mmmmm not really fair...  (Read 10933 times)

Saw11_2000

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2010, 10:58:31 PM »
I sure hope they're random. It says they're set to "custom."  I really do not want to deal with the fuel crisis.  It screwed me last time and I'm doing quite well right now.  :)

LOT767

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2010, 11:18:36 PM »
Well...correct me if I'm wrong but prices are not real world in this Game and therefore there should not be a precise '70s fuel crisis...?

Well let me say sorry, I didn't read that. My fault  ;D

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2010, 07:50:36 AM »
- Hard to get ove 50 seats aircraft from used market.
- Seems that they are available (DC-6, DC-7) for couple of minutes before they are leased.
- I donīt even know what is the right day and time in the game week to wait them.
- Seems that it is not profitable for airliner to operate under 50 seats aircraft fleet.
- My fleet: 16 Curtiss-Wright C-46 Commando, 3 DC-6, 1 DC-7.
- At Singapore, lowest marketing campaign fee is 61 000$ per week, my base country - newspapers, for fleet of 20 aircraft airliner. Pax loads will drop if I donīt have at least this one marketing.
- Staff salary is 950 000$ per month
- Fleet profit is 500 000$ per month when competing with these airliners who had managed to grab those DC-7īs from used market from the start.

Iīm not saying that everybody got to have a chance to start with DC aircraft in this game. I just donīt know how to play this game anymore. Well.. it isnīt easy to start with bigger airport. And with some patiente I might get some low burner aircraft from used market. But if that needs to wait one game week, that strategy wonīt be successful either. Marketing and that 1-3 Curtiss fleet wonīt gain much profit. Hmmm.... got to do bankruptcy again and think more. If I start from medium or small airport, all what I need is to have some member of Megafly or Worldlink alliance to route their spider-web to that airport...

Kim.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 07:55:27 AM by Kim »

Saw11_2000

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2010, 08:08:01 AM »
- Hard to get ove 50 seats aircraft from used market.
- Seems that they are available (DC-6, DC-7) for couple of minutes before they are leased.
- I donīt even know what is the right day and time in the game week to wait them.
- Seems that it is not profitable for airliner to operate under 50 seats aircraft fleet.
- My fleet: 16 Curtiss-Wright C-46 Commando, 3 DC-6, 1 DC-7.
- At Singapore, lowest marketing campaign fee is 61 000$ per week, my base country - newspapers, for fleet of 20 aircraft airliner. Pax loads will drop if I donīt have at least this one marketing.
- Staff salary is 950 000$ per month
- Fleet profit is 500 000$ per month when competing with these airliners who had managed to grab those DC-7īs from used market from the start.

Iīm not saying that everybody got to have a chance to start with DC aircraft in this game. I just donīt know how to play this game anymore. Well.. it isnīt easy to start with bigger airport. And with some patiente I might get some low burner aircraft from used market. But if that needs to wait one game week, that strategy wonīt be successful either. Marketing and that 1-3 Curtiss fleet wonīt gain much profit. Hmmm.... got to do bankruptcy again and think more. If I start from medium or small airport, all what I need is to have some member of Megafly or Worldlink alliance to route their spider-web to that airport...

Kim.



It is pretty hard to find over 50 seat a/c from the used market.  I went directly for the Convair 240/340/440 fleet and placed orders for DC3s for short range stuff and they served me well.  I lucked out a few times and got some DC6/7s, but I made sure to order 727s when they became available and DC8s for long range routes.  I am in the process of phasing out the dated DC3 with Hawker Siddeley HS 748 Srs. 2 a/c.  These should also be the replacement for my CVLP too.

I currently am spending over $250k/week on marketing, and I am unable to lower this without suffering a company image drop.  This is normal.

Are you sure you're spending over $900,000 on staff salaries a month?  I'm only spending $650k/month and I have one of the highest amount of employees in the simulation right now.

Hachiko

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2010, 12:08:41 PM »
Yes I did spend 950k for salaries. I bankrupted... Somehow ordering 2 used DC-6, 1 DC-7, they demanded pilots 56, crew 65...
But Iīll try another base than Singapore now. Thank you  :)

Offline schro

  • Members
  • Posts: 3081
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2010, 12:56:32 PM »
The problem I've observed with people using DC6/7's is that they try to peg out the range of the plane.  They're such slow aircraft that they'll spend a couple of days flying a 2500 mile flight (which is about their max range).  Pax dont' like it because it takes so long, and as a result, loads suck and you bleed money really fast.  If you've got slow planes, you've got to focus them on short haul -if you can get 4-5 trips flights per day (challenging with the high turn around time), then you can really make some money with them....

Saw11_2000

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2010, 09:43:49 PM »
I make sure to keep my planes running throughout the night.  If an airport supports it, I'll run flights between 12am and 5am.  I just discount the prices of these flights by about 25% to keep the LF acceptable and turn a profit.

Snowfallin

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2010, 10:31:48 PM »
Dear swiftus I'm back with updates :) (12 months passed)

13.  Snowfallin     - AJK Airlines            - 277 074 vs. 142 326 (the foolish newbie)
24.  Maarten Otto - CityLinQ                - 220 166 vs. 68 209 (really god job in the 2nd half)
40.  swiftus27     - Outback Express      - 161 429 vs. 93 148

Now swiftus, you tell us, wtf was going on here ?

Quote
AJK, -1,300,000, will have his 7th fleet type and get killed in commonality.   Has 9 new planes coming (9x VC10).  Monthly maint will simply bury this airlines if those other fleets are not disposed of soon.
Get killed in commonality ?! I think i missed first year round of bankruptcies...I'll probably continue to be less experimented than you :(
Quote
You simply can't use number of pax moved right now to compare airlines.   Many have a ton of new A/C coming in (AND first 4 months paid for in advance.    Just because many of us didn't jump on the used market early doesn't mean we aren't going to fare well.
What to use then ? isnt this the purpose of an airline ? or it may be to "dont jump on used market early", search for a "tough airport" to start...should I go on ? or maybe the final goal is to have CI of +60, set regular prices and simply pass on whatever used aircrafts are there for every ordinary newbie.

Seriously now, I think you tried to articulate the fact that you have a strategy, but didnt find the exact word, mainly because you didnt know what the objective is.

AJK has CI 59 and on fast-forward, and for further financials just check my figures in rankings. I'm easy to be found in the first 20.
I searched for you, were you on th first page at least ?!
Honestly, we can continue this, as long as you like (and you dont get bankrupt).

@Icecold buddy, if school keeps you busy, focus on it then (could be helpful), dont waste time on 1km long post about eRepublik simulation. is not a life simulation, but macro-economy one. for life, well....you have life itself.
Quote
And just to let you know, I have been playing for two years longer than you have, so don't even think about saying that I don't know what I'm talking about.
(searching for your results) I just stated that you dont manage an airline at the moment, but you raised a fair thought.


auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2010, 11:11:23 PM »
I must say, this trash-talking battle on the forums is more interesting than the game itself  ;D

To be fair to swiftus, Sydney isn't an easy airport to operate out of, especially because he has a strong competitor. Also, he may well have a different objective for this playing of the game than just building the maximum sized airline that he can. Given that his airlines is called Outback Express, I doubt he ever had planned on world domination. I'm surprised you dislike him so, he has been very friendly and generous in advice on the forums.

That said, you're clearly doing a nice job with your airline... maybe it has something to do with the fact that you really wanted to prove wrong the people whom you perceived to be critics.

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2010, 11:19:46 PM »
I cant agree more with the above poster.   I, too, don't understand why this person has so much discontent and/or hatred regarding what I say.  

You are comparing things that shouldnt be compared at this point.  PAX moved is meaningless to me right now.  My goal was to achieve a high CI while holding off of the used market.  Instead, I focused on having new planes arrive early (you didnt care to mention all of the 721s I have ordered).  Did you read my thread entitled Blowing wad (money) on marketing http://www.airwaysim.com/forum/index.php/topic,18284.0.html.  On a side note, I can say that all of my used planes will be retired by August of this year.... all while I have 721s coming in.   

Appeasing your need for comparison wasn't my early goal.  Alas, I have played this many times over already and know how easy it is to spam international planes out of Narita or domestic planes out of Atlanta/Las Vegas.  This, again, is NOT a GAME.  It is a simulation.  I enjoy SIMULATING an airline that originates far far from the other continents in a time where finding planes that can cross the oceans are few and far between.

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2010, 11:33:59 PM »
I am going to appease SnowFallin's need for comparison:

Australia Population: 21.4 million
USA Population: 304.1 million (not to mention the proximity to Canada and Mexico)

Let's just cut to the point and compare the value of all airplanes on order:

Outback Express:   10.6 million in 721s, 1.8 million in NAMC planes (12.4 million)
AJK Airline: 3.8 million in Trident 1cs,  5.7 million in Vickers, 0.3 million in 731s.   (9.8 million)

Total Asset Value:
Outback Express 12.4 million + 4.4 million = $16.8 million
AJK Airline:  9.8 + 5.1 million = $14.9 million

Pax Moved:
Outback Express: 145,138 pax
AJK Airline 258,221 pax

Operating Hours:
Orlando 24h
Sydney Closed 23-06h

So, I can safely say that with a small fleet of puny Convairs, I found a way to create an airline in a more difficult region that was more successful than your own.  You moved more people (almost double) and earned a ton less for it; congrats are in order I am sure.   

This is why I say that commonality is killing you.  You could have done much better staying smaller.  Stick with one flight group... not 7 or more. 


Snowfallin

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2010, 01:50:42 AM »
Quote
I must say, this trash-talking battle on the forums is more interesting than the game itself   
Glad that our chitchat battle entertained you :), the simulation thematic seems to be delicious too.

As I see u're paying attention to details, so I'll tackle briefly each point.
Code: [Select]
Australia Population: 21.4 million
USA Population: 304.1 million (not to mention the proximity to Canada and Mexico)
Interesting.
true! Also true...
Australia
-cumulated no. of airlines based within top 10 aiports (pax): 8 (i think those are all for the entire country)
-ranking for Outback express' base airport: 1st (the biggest)
-other direct competitors based on same airport: 2
SUA
-cumulated no. of airlines based within top 10 aiports (pax):29  (and counting)
-ranking for AJK Airlines' base airport: 12 (not in top 10)
-other direct competitors based on same airport: 3
Now, for the sake of comparison 29 vs. 8 is (3.5), 12 vs. 1 is (12). 3 vs. 2 is (1.5). all these multiplied 3.5*12*1.5=63
So, very roughly, we could say i have 15 times larger pax pool, and 60 times harsher competition. hmmm...interesting also.
I got your point, i'm sure you'll get mine (i know that you cannot just multiply things here and there...like you cannot just look at the country population broadly).

Code: [Select]
Total Asset Value:
Outback Express 12.4 million + 4.4 million =[b] $16.8 million[/b]
AJK Airline:  9.8 + 5.1 million = $14.9 million
Actually the 731 will be owned so you should add (2.2-0.3=)1.9MM
So a total would be 14.9+1.9= $16.8 MM ...funny isnt it :)

Code: [Select]
Given that his airlines is called Outback Express, I doubt he ever had planned on world domination. [b]I'm surprised you dislike him so[/b], he has been very [b]friendly and generous in advice on the forums[/b].I'm surprised you say that. I dont know him so I dont dislike him.
Friendly on the forums...i dont know that either, so i dont comment (though I have a feeling that he's quite a constructive guy).
Why this then ?
Well, as I said I'm quite new to the game, and at the beginning of this thread made the mistake to spit out my angry on a post. I apologized for that, and posted feedback saying that the simulation could support some improvements and that it should definitely have a complete manual & learnings even though  there's a working progress. in my opinion this forum/community isnt very dynamic, added to the fact that you actually have to test everything, go wrong, bankrupt and restart to get the basic understanding...a detailed manual would have been helpful.
Result was that most of our fellows raised topics like, u're new, u're ignorant, go read, go think again, delete your account and so on..

Therefore, the 2 rankings with me and most common users that posted feedback vs. me.
Swiftus as Daveos were constructive types, but it happen for swiftus to come with arguments vs. ranking, i came with mines and here we are.
@Swiftus, i dont want to prove that you or any other player are lousy player, just to state, that I'm very confident in my judgement and that I'm not just an ignorant newbie (so I dont expect to be treated so) :)
In the end, my first objective was to avoid bankruptcy while not killing my chances for a top 40 airline (pax) worldwide, further on.

good morning folks,
snow

Snowfallin

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2010, 02:05:05 AM »
forgot to mention.
I agree with (and know) that I have a commonality cost issue.
It was considered when i did my maths, and it'll be addresed by year end.

You know what is my main problem with Orlando airport (and havent figured at the beginning)...everything is at 800-1000 miles away from here (except atlanta, but not big deal). Otherwise i'd have been after conv 234/334/444 etc also..

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2010, 02:25:26 AM »
So, very roughly, we could say i have 15 times larger pax pool, and 60 times harsher competition. hmmm...interesting also.

obviously you have never been to Sydney or know nothing about Sydney. Sydney's demand for passengers is probably about 130 times the amount the Orlando has, because Orlando is only the third or fourth largest in FLORIDA, while Sydney is the BIGGEST IN AUSTRALIA AS A WHOLE. Also, Orlando has only demand for vacationing traffic, while Sydney's stretches the globe, and again is far greater at that. :-\

get your facts straight before assuming something. ;)

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2010, 02:26:05 AM »
dont assume a linear relationship between number of airlines and demand either.  There are many terribly run airlines in this game.   I watch all of the USA airports that keep coming and going.   Like a new one that started up in Sydney leasing a TON of tiny A/C...  Already out of cash.  

Why did you buy (not lease) the 731 when you aren't using that fleet?  That one plane alone will cost you a ton of money just for maint.   That means you need to save up the other 60% of money to pay for it thus hurting your operating cashflow.  Stick to leasing early.  There are many A/C that should be emerging (or should have already).  The 722/722adv and the 747 are what I am waiting for.  If you want to use any of the upcoming A/C, you need to make sure that you have a lot of cash on hand to place a large lease order.  With more cash on hand, you can actually borrow more from the bank in order to make an even larger order.

800-1000nm is your bread and butter, for sure.  I actually live near KCLE/CLE.  It is a very underrated airport in this game as there are MANY places within 800nm to go with plenty of demand.   That's a great airport for someone using ~50pax A/C.  Just get the NAMCs.  

Offline swiftus27

  • Members
  • Posts: 4395
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2010, 02:27:15 AM »
obviously you have never been to Sydney or know nothing about Sydney. Sydney's demand for passengers is probably about 130 times the amount the Orlando has, because Orlando is only the third or fourth largest in FLORIDA, while Sydney is the BIGGEST IN AUSTRALIA AS A WHOLE. Also, Orlando has only demand for vacationing traffic, while Sydney's stretches the globe, and again is far greater at that. :-\

get your facts straight before assuming something. ;)

I think he is assuming with current gen a/c and a of ~2000nm.  But on an international scale, you are correct. 

ICEcoldair881

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2010, 02:32:06 AM »
I think he is assuming with current gen a/c and a of ~2000nm.  But on an international scale, you are correct. 

even at that the demand is huge........

Offline swiftus27

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  • Posts: 4395
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2010, 03:11:32 AM »
aside from the Melbourne route which is insane, it REALLY drops off after that in Sydney.  There are many ~300+ pax destinations for Orlando where there are 6-7 within 1000nm around Sydney.

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2010, 03:21:22 AM »
Yeah, Sydney technically has a lot of passenger demand, but a lot of it is in small route to the pacific islands and on long-haul routes that aren't really feasible yet. I do believe that Sydney is a little more challenging than Orlando because of the closing times and the limited amount of viable destinations, but I do also agree that competition in the United States is always fierce with so many airlines. But there are so many quality routes in the US that a lot of airlines can coexist. In Sydney, if you don't have a good market share on the routes to Melbourne, Brisbane, Auckland, Adelaide and a couple of others, you don't really have an airline, whereas you have far more options from Orlando.

But, if you really want to have some fun, come challenge me in Christchurch. I'm thinking of opening up a flight to Paraparauma... Don't you know where that is? Don't worry, neither do I, and I live in New Zealand  ;D

auerbacs

  • Former member
Re: Mmmmm not really fair...
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2010, 03:23:47 AM »
Also, just so you know snowfallin, it's spelled "USA", not "SUA". That's a common error though  :P

 

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