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Author Topic: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO  (Read 5396 times)

Online Sami

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Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« on: January 01, 2010, 11:00:26 PM »
#1:
One thought came to my mind ... From time to time players abandon a game world while they have a fully functioning and profitable airline - reasons vary of course why they do this. But I came to think that it's not very realistic that if CEO quits, the airline is closed (I mean for large airlines, not small firms with <10 planes as in such firms the CEO can really be the sole owner too).

So what if ... The airline would still be kept alive automatically (= just all stuff to automatic, staff+maintenances etc) for a period of time and new players could apply for the job of the airline CEO. Meaning that a new player joining the world could either start an airline from scratch or then seek "to be employed" by some of the airlines looking for a new CEO. If new ceo is not found the company would be closed..

This would also potentially be a saviour in those (only few) rare cases where player has run out of Cr's, forgot to buy more, and lost his airline because of that. (that's "his fault" still of course .. but seen it 2-3 times already, and we cannot recover a closed airline)

But this change, if it would work, could bring more "duration" to the game worlds as large airlines won't then just disappear (financial bankruptcies aside of course). New players could also get easier starts with a precreated airline. Downsides what I can think of are also for new players - they may have very hard time understanding what the previous guy has done as there cannot be any kind of briefing made to him (unless the two players have agreed of such CEO transfer scheme). And also that clear rule / info must be posted to the players that they can allow this - in some cases airline rebranding will be necessary as some players have airline names reserved to them.


#2:
Or even more drastic would be a deal where each player is only an employer of the company, not the owner, and can be fired from his task if the "board of directors" (=computer) is not satisfied with his performance as manager. This would of course need some given tasks for the player/manager. ...though is option is not very fun if someone really would like to keep playing with the airline.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 11:04:25 PM by sami »

Offline ali5541

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 11:39:25 PM »
Option 1

Reasons:

It's Much more realistic and is best for current games.

Option 2

Best for Scenario's.
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Offline LemonButt

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2010, 12:11:36 AM »
The best way to handle it, in my opinion, would be to just let things go.  When a CEO bails on an airline, it should be "bailed out" by the federal government and whatever profits are made from flights out of an airport should goto the airport and distributed to the airlines flying out of said airport based on market share since they are losing the potential to fly those routes and make the money themselves.  For example, if you have a route from ATL to LAX and back and make $20k profit on the route from ATL to LAX and $10k profit on the route from LAX to ATL, $20k profit goes to ATL and is given to the airlines based at ATL based on market share and $10k given to the airlines based at LAX.  If/when the airline starts going into the red, it will eventually be liquidated by the bank.

It doesn't seem fair that someone can come in and take over for someone else, but maintaining the airline through a "bail out" would keep the airline alive for the owner to take control back if they choose to do so without hurting existing players and taking away passengers.  You want to make the game as realistic as possible, right?  Bailouts are the wave of the future :)

Online Sami

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 12:15:17 AM »
Why would competitor airlines receive money when their competitor decides to cease operating .. ?  We're still trying to simulate reality here to some extent. ;) :P


(the cases where the ORIGINAL player wants to come back are only very very rare cases, but just pointed out that too since it has happened)

Online schro

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2010, 03:19:01 AM »
I think both of these scenarios are a bit farfetched and would make the game a bit more complicated and difficult to understand.

With regards to #1, I don't think airlines should be operated as zombies awaiting new CEO's when the player is no longer in the game.  Even if its a viable enterprise with a strong route structure, a sizeable airline going bankrupt gives other players in the game an opportunity for expansion (i.e. if that airline had a chokehold on a particular city's traffic). This recently happened in Modern Times #1, where a 130+ plane airline went BK at ORD.  This has given me countless expansion opportunities where there havn't been as many opportunities out of my home city.

When you think back to historical bankruptcies/airlines being snuffed out, it happened in a few different ways - 1. A vacuum is created from the sudden stoppage of the airline - Eastern, for example, cleared the way for ValuJet (now Airtran) to start operations in Atlanta out of Concourse C.  American expanded by purchasing Eastern's MIA assets, etc.  Since the game does not allow multi-hub operation, its a bit more difficult to simulate this aside from what it already does - unserviced travel demand and a glut of used aircraft on the market.  2. The other way airlines are snuffed out are from mergers/acquistions. Most recently DL/NW or many of the others in the past. 

With regards to #2, I think for the games as they stand now this idea would not work very well. However, if scenarios were developed with specific objectives/tasks as the game objective (rather than the basic bury your competition and make money scenario), having the threat of the plug being pulled would be a good way to keep the game in check.  For example, in a "green" scenario where the objective is to build the most fuel efficient airline, it could be grounds to be fired if you're making a truckload of money with gas guzzlers.... but I'd say this should be handled as if someone is BK'ed as they are now.

The other interesting concept would be the ability to transfer "ownership" of the airline to a different player - perhaps I start a basic airline but then want to transfer it to a friend of mine and start another one fresh.  However, this might create a secondary market with the pros out there playing to make money and sell their airlines to less experienced players wanting to know what running a successful airline is like....

Offline LemonButt

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 03:20:40 AM »
Competitors would get a share of profits because the airline is still flying and taking up passenger demand whereas if the airline was bankrupted, it would free up a lot of demand and thus airlines could fly the routes themselves and profit, however that opportunity isn't given to them when the airline is still operating.

In the AirwaySim world, all airlines pay 30% tax.  In the real world, taxpayers are the shareholders of bailed out companies, even though its bogus.  Since all airlines are taxpayers, perhaps everyone should get a cut?

Offline Gaius Marius

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2010, 04:52:42 AM »
In a situation where a CEO quits, why don't we assume that he/she quit under "shady" circumstances (just for the fun of it).  Then have the "recievers" come in and take over the company for a period of time to sell of the assets and recoup the money for the investors.  However, because the airline is operating profitably put the routes along with the a/c on the market as operating units.  For example, Company CEO quits (because he was found to be stealing lunches from the company refrigerator) and the recievers sell off his 20 route pairs with the a/c on those routes as 20 (or so) units.  I would prefer to see an auction situation but you could set it up like the existing used a/c sales lot.  With the new multi base ability coming out it shouldn't be a problem for other airlines to buy routes that don't originate at their home base.

If this interests you, I would also propose that a similar system be used to liquidate the operating assets of bankrupt companies.  I assume there is more value in an operating a/c rather than one parked in the desert.  The money raised would obviously go to the "creditors" and jobs and otherwise healthy routes (or even shady routes that need better management) would be saved.

This system would also allow new players to buy their way into established markets but not unfairly.

GM
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 04:59:58 AM by Gaius Marius »
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Offline Unbornio

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2010, 05:16:39 AM »
In the AirwaySim world, all airlines pay 30% tax.  In the real world, taxpayers are the shareholders of bailed out companies, even though its bogus.  Since all airlines are taxpayers, perhaps everyone should get a cut?

---

That's incorrect. It's based on what country you are in.. UAE has 0% tax. Let's all hurry there  ;D.
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Yb

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 12:12:23 PM »
Actually I really like the first or the second idea. The only thing I wonder about is how to do it that somebody would come and get a really profitable airline?

Maybe it would be better if the airline stayed and lost a plane in a game week (month)? so that ways slowly getting smaller and smaller which would for example simulate the bankrupcy and selling the airline = no fast expansions for those who can afford it and more chance for the small ones to continue.

Otherwise it would be nice if you would be able to buy the airline as a whole in some sort of an auction system for the time being (which could be connected with the idea stated up - as the airline would be loosing the planes, the price would decrease).

If wanted this could be connected with somebody who could work for AirwaySim as a bankrupcy liquidator - there could be a proposal for the airline merger or an overtake and he could reject it if he would think that the possition of that airline would be too strong later on (anti-monopoly office). I would gladly do such job. It would be fun :)

Online Sami

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 12:46:16 PM »
With regards to #1, I don't think airlines should be operated as zombies awaiting new CEO's when the player is no longer in the game.

Yes but in #1 scenario the airline is not bankrupt, it's financially still OK but just without a CEO. For max some 6-12 game months, during which time the existing routes would be operated with the preset prices and all staff/marketing/maintenance is on auto so the company won't stall right away. Not sure how that would work on practise though.

If the airline is in bad financial condition then of course this wouldn't happen.

(why I am thinking this is just this; it's not that "accurate" to have a wellgoing airline to go bust because CEO quits)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2010, 12:49:16 PM by sami »

Offline Name_Omitted

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 08:22:17 PM »
How about a modification of #1 where the airline board will seek applications, and the CEO with the highest personal net worth who applies gets the job?  The (presumably smaller) airline then goes to the next CEO who wants to apply.  That gives a reason not to zero out the CEO salary line item.

To make things more interesting, give the CEO a bonus for successful operation of the new airline.  At the end of a set amount of time, have the formerly BK airline give a bonus equal to, say, 10% of it's profit for the first profitable year to the airline CEO, giving him a jump in reputation for the next airline to go bust.  This would open a new field of play for gamers who want to be "turn around agents."  I intentionally screw up my airlines to see how big of a hole I can dig myself out off, this would be a much more interesting and fun way of doing that.

Offline Daveos

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 08:02:41 PM »
I think option #1 is a superb idea. 

2009 was somewhat of an exception, but large airlines are generally taken over by new management in times of crisis and do not usually go bust.  Often the game can become mundane and boring once an airline is running well and competition dies down.  The introduction of a new CEO would help the airline regain impetous.  In MT#1, for example, I would willingly hand over my airline (Manchestair) if there was an option - I've acheived all I wanted and I tweak a route here and there every day or so, but thats it.  The airline runs itself and the idea that someone else might want to take over would reignite some competition, which the games lack in the second half.

As alluded to by Sami, it would also allow new players or frequently bankrupting players to see how things work when an airline does well.

In the longer term, this could also lead to the continuous world that has been mentioned quietly in the past.  I doubt any player would wish to remain in charge of an airline for years and this would open up the opportunity of a world where the market is much more realistic when starting.  The biggest airlines would eventually go pop, if a CEO took charge that was unfamiliar with a larger airline.  Sabotage would also be a possibility here and add new twists to the game.  If a huge airline became available for new management, someone may take charge to destroy them and free up slots/routes etc.  An exciting turn I think :)

Anyway, option 1 gets my vote - superb progressive thinking Sami.

Cheers,

Dave :)

Online Sami

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2010, 08:06:18 PM »
oh, and to add.. This CEO idea what I posted is also part of the 'package' where I tend to shift the focus a bit into a "be a CEO" type of game. Which means that when game world starts you get X amount of $$$'s as your personal wealth. You could then try to apply for jobs at existing airlines, or start a new airline (by investing all or some of your money, and getting the rest from outside investors). Then when you got an airline, you manage it normally and get paid the salary and possible stock dividends. And CEO could also trade with airline stocks by using his personal money..

If the company goes down you still have your personal money that can be used to start another airline (or if you're out of it, the outside investors will then just pitch in with 100% ownership share).

That's also an easy way to determine a game world winner, player with highest personal wealth.

Yb

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 08:23:17 PM »
oh, and to add.. This CEO idea what I posted is also part of the 'package' where I tend to shift the focus a bit into a "be a CEO" type of game. Which means that when game world starts you get X amount of $$$'s as your personal wealth. You could then try to apply for jobs at existing airlines, or start a new airline (by investing all or some of your money, and getting the rest from outside investors). Then when you got an airline, you manage it normally and get paid the salary and possible stock dividends. And CEO could also trade with airline stocks by using his personal money..

If the company goes down you still have your personal money that can be used to start another airline (or if you're out of it, the outside investors will then just pitch in with 100% ownership share).

That's also an easy way to determine a game world winner, player with highest personal wealth.

I really support what you just said here. And it you plan this I really also support fully your proposed ideas. If we were to make it like this, it would be nice - then "zombie airlines" are a good idea too.

Offline samsaunders85

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2010, 08:42:39 PM »
I'm all for option 1. There seems to be a huge void created in the longer games and some of the enjoyment is taken away
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Offline oggie84

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2010, 11:44:38 PM »
This might be a little far fetched but what about another option or even this option incorporated into any of the other two options suggested already...

It has been suggested before that when a new game world opens, there could be already established airlines (run by the simulation) operating on routes before said world has even started. This idea was supposedly an option to limit how quickly/aggressively player controlled airlines could expand so that they didn't dominate everything and everyone in just a matter of a few game years.

Now my suggestion would be that at the very beginning of when you go through the process of picking your airline name and operating base, why not have an option where the player can choose whether or not he wants to take over one of these (simulation) airlines or start his own from scratch?

I think for the more experienced players, they would rather start their own as this would add an extra dimension to the game because it provides them with yet another 'challenge' to overcome by trying to compete with already established airlines. This would add more excitement to these players and might give them reason to keep going in the game rather than bankrupting because it got mudane or boring for them.

As for the less experienced players or even beginners, they would be more inclined to choose an already established airline 'to see how it can be done'. They can look around these airlines and get an idea of how things run in the game, giving them useful hints and tips on what they should actually be doing. This could in some way be linked in with the tutorial idea.
Or if they really want a lesson then they would choose to start from scatch also.  :P

This could also be incorporated into option 1 whereby when the CEO decides he's had enough and quits, the airline is then run by the simulation again (whether it be from a player who started from scratch or if it was a previously run simulation airline). Even if a less experienced (in the beginning) thinks he/she has now got the hang of things after a while, they might think of leaving but instead of just leaving the game altoghter they might decide to start their own airline from scratch, now knowing how to run an airline without bankrupting several times over like they do at the moment. So in a sense, this could be a sort of tutorial for them.

This could also tie in with the 'CEO wealth' structure that has already been suggested in this thread so you could actually create quite a few possiblities in progessing forward in the development of this great game.

I think with these ideas, it would give players in the longer game worlds more longevity with their airlines rather than bankrupting because they're bored.

Anyway, i did say it might be a little too far fetched but it just popped into my head while i was reading through this thread and i thought i might aswell share this with you and see what people may think.  :)

Andrew

ReedME

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 12:18:05 AM »
Loving your idea's sami!  ;D

Talentz

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 06:32:17 AM »
Sounds interesting. I would like to move around the world managing different airlines and styles.


Though I would also prefer the merger/buy-out option for other airlines as well. Sadly though, I doubt any proposed anti-monopoly broad would dream of allowing me to do that...




Talentz

Offline Minto Typhoon

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2010, 07:18:03 PM »

The idea of an airline-buy out or merger sounds interesting.  to keep it realistic - perhaps only airlines in the country of airline sale could be included - i.e. US carriers cant buy EU ones, or Vice Versa.  Also, the buying player should be a profitable carrier.

Player A wants to sell his airline for many reasons - bankruptcy, bored, not a challenge.  Player b can buy the airline, and assumes all liabilities, aircraft, leases, staff etc with the challenge (if buying a bankrupt carrier) of turning the carrier around before it assumes the host carrier.

Programming wise, you then have the issue of a dual hub carrier, with aircraft maintenance happening in two cities.

Perhaps there is a benefit to the selling carrier too - the owner could walk away with some cash to start a new carrier elsewhere.


Offline lastchancer

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Re: Transfer of airline ownership / CEO
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2010, 09:41:22 PM »
I like both ideas. BTW, im one of the guys who allways close down well running airlines.

its just because I mostly enjoy the experience to build up an airline from the start. When it is grown and i get a cashflow what i even cant invest any longer, I "bancrupt" the airline and start a new one.

Every player has his own type of gaming, so it might be interesting (e.g.learning other ones strategies) to be CEO of an airline that somebody else builded up. But it might be hard for a new player to manage running airline with about 100 planes.





 

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